Who is responsible for the wiring between National Grid and Meters?

ndelightfullyvaguely

I own a Leasehold in an Apartment that has 4 others all together.

All of the meters are in the communal area as you come in and each has their own meter.

I am trying to get a Smart Meter and I have had both Octopus and British Gas out who have said they can't do it because of the wiring leading to the meter. (This is after Western Power and where it has been split into 4 different tails for the meters).

The meter fitter from Octopus was really helpful, he pointed out that none of it is up to regulation so it's not worth his job to even attempt to touch it. He said there were multiple cables going into single ports and that the "blocks" should be fixed onto a board and not "floating".

I had an electrician out to have a look who basically said "not a chance" they would touch the wiring for me because it is before my meter so they can't start messing about with stuff. 

So I spoke to Western Power / National Grid, they have said that although they carried the work out years ago this would have been handed onto a BNO. After researching, this looks like it's likely to be the Freeholder who owns the actual building.

I have been onto the company that I pay ground rent to, they said that they themselves aren't responsible for any maintenance (but they aren't the freeholder, they are the go between) so I have asked them to forward this over to the freeholder. 

I have been trying for 2 years now and just keep getting passed around between National Grid, Property Management Company and Electricity Providers trying to get it sorted.

I have been through my lease agreement and there's no mention about this but I assume it isn't up to me to resolve? What would happen if this caught fire / somebody was hurt from it? Who is responsible?

Any advice would be amazing! Thankyou.



 

Section62

ndelightfullyvaguely said:

Any advice would be amazing! Thankyou.

Didn't you smell an electrical/burning smell when you walked past the cupboard?.....

Ectophile

DNOs used to be responsible for everything up to the meter.  And they still are in simple installs with one supply cutout going to one meter.

But they realised that this made them responsible for some utterly shoddy wiring in flats, so they invented the BNO.  The BNO is now responsible for everything past the first fusebox (probably the green thing in the photos).

In practice, the BNO is the landlord.  Because there's nobody else who is responsible.

That wiring is terrible, and I'm not surprised that no meter fitter is willing to touch it.

ndelightfullyvaguely

Section62 said:

ndelightfullyvaguely said:

Any advice would be amazing! Thankyou.

Didn't you smell an electrical/burning smell when you walked past the cupboard?.....

To be fair to the Octopus engineer, he did have a good look at everything that would be "DNO" to try and find faults with it to get them out. He was checking insulation etc but he said that actually looked OK.

As it stands, I have no idea who would be responsible if it set on fire or electrocuted somebody.

ndelightfullyvaguely

Ectophile said:

DNOs used to be responsible for everything up to the meter.  And they still are in simple installs with one supply cutout going to one meter.

But they realised that this made them responsible for some utterly shoddy wiring in flats, so they invented the BNO.  The BNO is now responsible for everything past the first fusebox (probably the green thing in the photos).

In practice, the BNO is the landlord.  Because there's nobody else who is responsible.

That wiring is terrible, and I'm not surprised that no meter fitter is willing to touch it.

Thanks, yep previously in a semi detached house there was an issue between the incoming feed and the meter and they were out within a couple of hours to fix it .

I have sent an email today to the management company who said they will "forward to the freeholders legal team" as to which I expect no reply or a "not our problem".

The last fitter basically said it needs the power off to the 4 meters for a few hours and everything ripped out and done properly. 

I'm not really in a position to be able to (or want to) pay however many thousands that would cost to be able to get a smart meter.

Jonboy_1984

If the freeholders arrange it, you will probably pay a quarter of it via your service charge anyway.

Goldenyears

ENA (Engineering Networks Association) Recommendation document G87 is worth a read on the responsibilities of a Building network Operator (BNO)

ndelightfullyvaguely

OK so National Grid have said "It is your BNO which is the building owner".

The management company for the freeholders have said:

"We acknowledge your comments in respect of the cables/tails between the main power income of which you advise are unsafe and not up to regulations. With regret,  we collect payment of Ground Rent only as this property therefore it would be the responsibility of Leaseholders to contact Western Power / National Grid to inform them of your concerns and request they attend the property to evaluate.

 

Once their assessment has been completed and they confirm details of the proposed remedial works, we would ask if you can provide further information to us and we can then assist further and advise if Freeholder consent would need to granted for example if they need to dig the Freeholder’s land or add new cables  etc.

 

Sometimes the supplier will require a Wayleave agreement or consent form signing, this gives permission for them to run cables across the Freeholder’s land and we would ask you discuss this with your  Electric  supplier in the first instance and if a wayleave is required the installer will need to provide this also."

Albermarle

OK so National Grid have said "It is your BNO which is the building owner".

If you have this in writing, you could forward it on to the management company.

ndelightfullyvaguely

Albermarle said:

OK so National Grid have said "It is your BNO which is the building owner".

If you have this in writing, you could forward it on to the management company.

Yes I have all of the emails

"Your supply is BNO which is building network operator so it’s the responsibility of the person who owns the building we are DNO is us, as explained we can isolate for you so anyone can work  on the supply or your welcome to pay us for the work but we stop at the cut out everything else is not ours

So in the past we have pulled fuses for the meter people so they can change the meters or work on them"

ndelightfullyvaguely

I have had Octopus send over what was said by the engineer:

The engineer left these notes:

Abort Comments: No space for meter or blocks to be fitted. Bunched tails in neutral floating blocks. Mutilple tennants would need to be taken off supply for the meter to be changed. Customer to contact the BNO. TECH CODE TASO13NC