Solicitor refusing to distribute to executors - and refusing to refund overpaid IHT

MacPingu1986

OP - Re the beneficiaries bank account. This is not the solicitors choosing to be difficult in response to the other complaint. From the solicitors perspective, there is sum £X which needs to be distributed to the beneficiary, sending those funds anywhere else, even to you, creates risk if there's no onward transfer and the beneficiary sues for non-receipt - that's why they want a clear consent.

Appreciate you're trying to help the beneficiary - but they're not being asked to make a stressful decision, it's simply whether they are happy for their funds to be paid to you first. Is the beneficiary happy for the funds to be paid to you?

Rialtos

Hoenir said:

Rialtos said:

I've pointed out to them that they are simply our hired-help (hired-hinderers would be more the case) and we are the estate executors.

The solicitors presumably are also executors though

No they aren't..I explained that the two executors are myself and wife. They are hired-help, nothing more.

doodling

Hi,

Linton said:

Despite the history regarding the IHT I feel you could be somewhat unreasonable in demanding that they pass the beneficiary's money to you personally.  In principle if something were to happen to the money could they be seen as responsible for any loss.  eg what happens if you die in the meantime or smply decide not to pass the money on?  

I agree that the best approach is for the exexutor to get permission from the beneficiary to distribute the money to them in the UK.  Such permission should also specify how it should be distributed.

To address the two points raised above, if the executor dies before passing on the money then their exexutor gets the fun of sorting out both estates (which will mean that the money will get to where it ought to go but probably with a delay) and if they simply choose not to pass the money on then that is theft and can be dealt with by actions in both the civil and criminal courts, albeit the latter only really if the police can be bothered (note that both of these cases could arise if the executor decided not be emply a solicitor).

Getting permission would make sense to protect the executors from any comeback from the beneficiary.

In theory the executors could insist that the solicitors give them what is legally their money (albeit held on trust for the beneficiaries) but in practise I really don't think it is worth the battle.

SiliconChip

If sending the money direct to the beneficiaries bank account would cost EUR 30,000 in fees and poor exchange rate then the amount being sent must be huge (possibly millions). Is that the case? If not then perhaps you have overestimated the cost of sending.

I was going to suggest that you instruct the solicitors to send the money using WISE, or some other money transfer service, rather than having it sent to you so that you can do something similar, but it may be that the amount is above the maximum that can be sent by such services, at least in one transaction.

Rialtos

SiliconChip said:

If sending the money direct to the beneficiaries bank account would cost EUR 30,000 in fees and poor exchange rate then the amount being sent must be huge (possibly millions). Is that the case? If not then perhaps you have overestimated the cost of sending.

I was going to suggest that you instruct the solicitors to send the money using WISE, or some other money transfer service, rather than having it sent to you so that you can do something similar, but it may be that the amount is above the maximum that can be sent by such services, at least in one transaction.

The amount is quite large yes. My calculations are correct.The difference is £26,000/ 31,000 euro. Fees don't come into it - it's all exchange rate differences. My calculations arent wrong. The 5% difference in exchange rates of a money broker and the Spanish bank on £520,000 due is £26,000 or 31,000 euro The solicitors dont use Wise and refuse to. They insist on using a simple bank transfer.

Jowwie

I would not worry too much about the transfer decision. Just give the beneficiary the choice of the money going straight to them at the solicitor bank exchange rate, or to give the permission for potentially 5% more if it goes via your accounts and such as wise.com. Beneficiaries decision not yours.
Be aware that for a large transfer you may need to provide additional evidence to show what the transfer is for. Transferring large sums in one go may also need a CHAPS payment or be split into smaller amounts.
I had a beneficiary who asked me to use wise, and also split transfer into 10 smaller payments spread over a month to average exchange rate. Bit of a pain to do, but it worked, and they did end up with more. In hindsight it would have been better if they set up a sterling account within their own wise account and I transferred all the funds to that in sterling. They could of then pulled the funds themselves whenever they were happy with the exchange rate. Not sure this option is appropriate for you though if the beneficiary is ill health.

tetrarch

Just thinking out loud.....

Could you prepare a deed of variation, signed by both of you and your relative. This could change the funds to you as though the original beneficiary had not been named in the will

Then prepare another deed of variation where you, as beneficiary mark some of your share to your relative

Deeds of Variation do not need to be prepared by legal professionals

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/can-i-draw-up-a-simple-deed-of-variation-myself

Regards

Tet

msb1234

I would assume you have an executor account set up for the estate to be paid into? What does the contract you’ve agreed to with the solicitor say about payments to beneficiaries? 

The solicitor seems to be doing exactly as I would expect by checking with the beneficiaries how they want their money to be paid to them. There may also be limitations as to how it can be paid out. Having the best part of 1/2 million going through your own personal account may also raise alarm bells with HMRC.

Hoenir

Rialtos said:

Hoenir said:

Rialtos said:

I've pointed out to them that they are simply our hired-help (hired-hinderers would be more the case) and we are the estate executors.

The solicitors presumably are also executors though

No they aren't..I explained that the two executors are myself and wife. They are hired-help, nothing more.

Did the solicitors apply for probate? 

Marcon

Jowwie said:

I would not worry too much about the transfer decision. Just give the beneficiary the choice of the money going straight to them at the solicitor bank exchange rate, or to give the permission for potentially 5% more if it goes via your accounts and such as wise.com. Beneficiaries decision not yours.
Be aware that for a large transfer you may need to provide additional evidence to show what the transfer is for. Transferring large sums in one go may also need a CHAPS payment or be split into smaller amounts.
I had a beneficiary who asked me to use wise, and also split transfer into 10 smaller payments spread over a month to average exchange rate. Bit of a pain to do, but it worked, and they did end up with more. In hindsight it would have been better if they set up a sterling account within their own wise account and I transferred all the funds to that in sterling. They could of then pulled the funds themselves whenever they were happy with the exchange rate. Not sure this option is appropriate for you though if the beneficiary is ill health.

tetrarch said:

Just thinking out loud.....

Could you prepare a deed of variation, signed by both of you and your relative. This could change the funds to you as though the original beneficiary had not been named in the will

Then prepare another deed of variation where you, as beneficiary mark some of your share to your relative

Deeds of Variation do not need to be prepared by legal professionals

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/can-i-draw-up-a-simple-deed-of-variation-myself

Regards

Tet

OP has said that simply asking their permission for the solicitor to send the funds to OP would stress them out, so I don't think these perfectly sensible suggestions are going to help here.

OP - what exactly did you engage the solicitor to do? Given the sum is in excess of half a million pounds, and your relative is apparently in such poor health you feel you can't 'trouble' them with a pretty simple question about remitting the funds, then wouldn't it make sense to accept that getting just under half a million pounds is still a good outcome for someone in such poor health? In this case 'doing your best' for her might be accepting that as the price you (or more accurately she) pays for sparing her any sort of questions/concerns.