Eon incorrect solar inverter installed advice sought

B3c5240

July 21 we had 6 additional panels and a storage battery added by eon to a existing system supplied by another company.  At the time we had issues with the installation not working correctly which we emailed both eon and the installer numerous times asking for help and training on the new system, we never got anywhere nor any help or training and basically fixed the most concerning error ourselves using google,with that issue fixed we requested advice a few more times without success and basically let the system run it's course assuming all must be in working order, as it was being monitored on the solar edge system, however as time went on we questioned the system as we didn't seem to be generating that much extra nor were we getting anymore back on the feed in tarrif, we rang a few more times over the course of last year and then arranged for an engineer friend to look at the system for us this year, which he did a few weeks ago, our friend told us the system isn't working so we got hold of someone at eon and reported this to them, they contacted the installers and we just had a site visit and been informed that we have had an incompatible inverter installed with our existing system, the installer remembers fitting this and as it was his first installation he wasn't aware this was an incompatible inverter it's only since he's fitted more that he has learnt this, he says this is eons fault, he has been in touch with eon and arranged for a correct Inverter to be supplied and fitted.  I wonder if anyone can advise on where we stand with getting some compensation for lost generation income,would it possible even to quantify? I'm not sure if we need to seek legal advice. 

Reed_Richards

B3c5240 said:

...... nor were we getting anymore back on the feed in tarrif,... 

To the best of my understanding you are not allowed to modify a system in receipt of the Feed-In Tariff.  If you do this you will no longer be eligible to claim the FIT.  You could legitimately install a completely separate system so that your generation from the original system would be unaffected but you imply that you haven't done this.  I presume Eon is not your FIT provider, because if they know you had made changes they would stop the FIT payments (although possibly their left hand does not know what their right hand is doing).

Under the circumstances you might be ill-advised to draw attention to your situation by seeking compensation.

pete-20-11

Can't comment on the legal side, but re FIT...

You can replace parts of the system (e.g. if they break) and/or add panels to it. 

If at any time the entire system is removed, you can no longer claim FIT. 

If the system is expanded e.g. more panels, FIT generation can be paid on a proportion of the generation - e.g. if you doubled the kWp, FIT generation payments would be pay half a unit for every unit generated. 

You also need to be able to measure the generation accurately. If a battery was added before the generation meter, rather than after it, then a different meter might be needed (one that can provide a net reading - effectively accounting for and subtracting the grid charging). 

If a separate inverter and battery was added direct to the consumer unit, then it should be fine - as the original inverter remains unchanged and the original generation meter shouldn't be impacted. 

B3c5240

Minefield, one I don't really understand......thank you for the insight, i wasn't aware if the FIT rules.  Just to clarify we had panels installed with an inverter and FIT in 2017....we added some extra panels, an additional inverter and a battery 18months ago, it's the new additional inverter that's not compatible with the new panel's.  The existing panels and inverter currently charge the new battery and our hot water and feed back to grid.....am i right in thinking then by the above comments that best use of the solar energy and keep the fit rules the new panels need to charge the battery, heat the water and supply the house and the old system needs to just feed back in to the grid and supply the house with additional when the new panels aren't matching the demand?  Confused 🤔

Reed_Richards

I think you can add a battery to an existing solar system without affecting the FIT.  But you cannot add more solar panels unless they are part of a completely separate system.  It sounds as if that is what you have done, although you don't make it completely clear.  

If you get your new panels working correctly then you will generate more electricity for your home use but as it stands your FIT payments will remain the same despite the fact that you will be feeding more electricity to the grid.  This is because your FIT pays you only for what your old panels generate (if you installed the new panels correctly).  Nominally you are paid for export to the grid as well but what you export is not measured; it is just deemed that you export half of what you generate.  You won't get any generation income from the new panels so you have not lost that.

If you have a smart meter that can measure what you actually do export then you can opt to be paid for actual rather than deemed export.  That's probably your best option now that you will be exporting more.  But what you get paid for your actual export varies a lot from one supplier to another.  Eon offer a good deal on systems they installed themselves so that would be worth investigating.  Octopus also offer a very good rate, but only to customers who they supply with electricity.  If you opt to be paid for actual export you can still keep the part of the FIT payment that is based on generation.

I don't know how you came to the decision to install these new panels and battery but you don't seem to have at all understood the ways in which these would give you benefit and the ways in which they would not.         

B3c5240

Thank You, I'd say that was a fair assumption, I don't understand any of it, when the engineer comes to install the replacement incompatible inverter I will ask for some basic training on how our 2 different systems work together (asked for at the time of the installation but never received just had faith that because both installers were professional installers/companies they would been aware of the whys and wherefores and made us aware of them too but as it's the first I've heard of FiT rules maybe not) we got the initial system for the savings benefit the second system to add a battery so we had some night-time gains, I'm sorry to be asking a stupid question but assume the smart meter you refer to isn't the one our energy supplier gave us but one that would have been installed with the inverter?  Obviously this leads to the second question, how would I know if it was a smart meter?  We give readings to the FIT supplier every 3 months.  We are with octopus energy now shell energy has transferred us, so maybe now is the time to move our fit tariff to octopus.

Stupidly I gave up asking for help from eon and the contractor because I was banging my head against a brick wall trying to get any help understanding the system, should have come the mse forum, I've learnt more in the last few days.  I have to be honest though as soon as the mathematics/units/kwh/ start my eyes glaze over and my brain gets replaced with cotton wool!! 

B3c5240

B3c5240 said:

Thank You, I'd say that was a fair assumption, I don't understand any of it, when the engineer comes to install the replacement incompatible inverter I will ask for some basic training on how our 2 different systems work together (asked for at the time of the installation but never received just had faith that because both installers were professional installers/companies they would been aware of the whys and wherefores and made us aware of them too but as it's the first I've heard of FiT rules maybe not) we got the initial system for the savings benefit the second system to add a battery so we had some night-time gains, I'm sorry to be asking a stupid question but assume the smart meter you refer to isn't the one our energy supplier gave us but one that would have been installed with the inverter?  Obviously this leads to the second question, how would I know if it was a smart meter?  We give readings to the FIT supplier every 3 months.  We are with octopus energy now shell energy has transferred us, so maybe now is the time to move our fit tariff to octopus.

Stupidly I gave up asking for help from eon and the contractor because I was banging my head against a brick wall trying to get any help understanding the system, should have come the mse forum, I've learnt more in the last few days.  I have to be honest though as soon as the mathematics/units/kwh/ start my eyes glaze over and my brain gets replaced with cotton wool!! 

Also I've been in touch with HIES and had some useful advice from them too.

Martyn1981

Reed_Richards said:

I think you can add a battery to an existing solar system without affecting the FIT.  But you cannot add more solar panels unless they are part of a completely separate system.  It sounds as if that is what you have done, although you don't make it completely clear.  

       

As pete explained, you can add more panels to an existing FiT system, you can also replace panels with more powerful ones.

I'm not entirely sure how this myth about not being able to amend a FiT system started, but I have tried to push back against it for a decade or so.

For more info you can review this thread.

Martyn1981

B3c5240 said:

Minefield, one I don't really understand......thank you for the insight, i wasn't aware if the FIT rules.  Just to clarify we had panels installed with an inverter and FIT in 2017....we added some extra panels, an additional inverter and a battery 18months ago, it's the new additional inverter that's not compatible with the new panel's.  The existing panels and inverter currently charge the new battery and our hot water and feed back to grid.....am i right in thinking then by the above comments that best use of the solar energy and keep the fit rules the new panels need to charge the battery, heat the water and supply the house and the old system needs to just feed back in to the grid and supply the house with additional when the new panels aren't matching the demand?  Confused 🤔

Hi, from the sound of that:

we added some extra panels, an additional inverter and a battery 18months ago, it's the new additional inverter that's not compatible with the new panel's. 

 and having a separate/additional inverter, that suggests to me that the new panels/inverter are separate to the original 2017 FiT system. But I am guessing.

Does the newer system have its own cabling, and also go through its own meter, before the consumer unit? Or does it feed via the same meter (TGM - total generation meter) as the FiT scheme?

So, whilst I think you should be entitled to some compensation for the faulty 2021 work, it would relate to lost export had you signed up for an export tariff*, and also lost savings from the extra PV gen displacing some more of your leccy import.

*As Reed Richards mentions, you can opt out of the export part of the FiT scheme (this doesn't lose you the generation subsidy), and if you did this, then you could apply for the export tariff for both the FiT and additional scheme. You couldn't (I believe) keep the deemed FiT export, as this would get double-counted with the total house export (of old and new PV) if you went that route.

I appreciate this sounds a bit messy and confusing, but we'll get there.

pete-20-11

Just don't opt out of FIT export this time of year!

Depending on the FIT provider it can take weeks or even months to do the switch. So that will probably mean no payment for generation from FIT AND SEG for some time.

Wait till the autumn to start the process! 

paul991

a smart meter is where your original  electricity meter is installed usually with a display inside the house.
The  generation meter would of been fitted at the same time as the first lot of panels were fitted and that s the reading you send for your Fit tariff