Civil Service Classic pension

marky_b_2

I work for the Civil Service and we have an internal communications board called Trusted Voices.

One of the posters on there has said that he has taken his 31 years service Classic pension and continued to work full time as an Admin Officer aged 58 and his pension has no abatement.

He said the wording around the Classic pension scheme is that if you wish to take Classic and continue working then you have to leave the Civil Service Pension scheme, he has joined Partnership and has said this breaks the link.

He said the wording has been changed for Alpha in that you have to go Partial retirement or quit your job in order to claim your pension

I have tried a search but cant find the rules which mention this, but I am wondering if the same wording would also apply for the Premium pension scheme?

Not that I am doubting him but can anyone confirm if this is true ref the classic pension and working full time.

I work with a few people aged close to 60, who are being told that the department cant accommodate any more partial retirement's in the future.

They are wanting to work by 60, I have mentioned to them about the above classic situation but I have also advised them that they would be taken a big hit on their Alpha pension so they'd really need to work out the best scenario for their circumstances.

Cheers

Andy_L

I can't see anyway that he shouldn't be suffering abatement. The rules are quite clear.

I suspect the pension people haven't noticed/been told he's working for the CS and as soon as they do they will apply it

hugheskevi

marky_b_2 said:

He said the wording around the Classic pension scheme is that if you wish to take Classic and continue working then you have to leave the Civil Service Pension scheme, he has joined Partnership and has said this breaks the link.

You can commence a pension from deferred status or from active status. If commenced from active status it must be through Partial Retirement. Partnership is irrelevant, all that matters is that a member is commencing pension from deferred status and switching to Partnership is a way to achieve that whilst still receiving employer pension contributions.

marky_b_2 said:

He said the wording has been changed for Alpha in that you have to go Partial retirement or quit your job in order to claim your pension

The rules around commencing pension are set out in the classic (1972) and alpha scheme rules. The drafting is quite different between the two schemes.

Alpha does not have any abatement clauses.

marky_b_2 said:

I have tried a search but cant find the rules which mention this, but I am wondering if the same wording would also apply for the Premium pension scheme?

Premium scheme rules are different to both classic and alpha rules. There is no way to avoid abatement in Premium.

marky_b_2 said:

I work with a few people aged close to 60, who are being told that the department cant accommodate any more partial retirement's in the future.

The abatement and Partial Retirement rules in conjunction with moving all members from NPA 60/65 schemes into an NPA=SPA scheme and how this would affect the demand for Partial Retirement have been well known and discussed since at least 2015. They lead to older members having strong incentives to ask for different FTE working arrangements, ranging from between about 40-70% depending on individual circumstances.

Now these things are causing an issue rather than being expected to cause issues, perhaps action may be taken.

I have also advised them that they would be taken a big hit on their Alpha pension so they'd really need to work out the best scenario for their circumstances.

This is an interesting example of loss aversion. Alpha has a higher accrual rate and in return has a higher Normal Pension age than the NPA 60 schemes. But taking alpha at age 60 is often about the same pension outcome as taking the NPA 60 schemes at that 60. If alpha had been given an NPA of 60 and a lower accrual rate, then people probably wouldn't be as keen to work past 60 and get an actuarially increased pension.

xylophone

They are wanting to work by 60, I have mentioned to them about the above classic situation but I have also advised them that they would be taken a big hit on their Alpha pension so they'd really need to work out the best scenario for their circumstances.

Are you qualified/authorised to "advise"?

If I were concerned about so important a matter, I would be requesting a copy of the Rules of my Scheme and any amendments

and if in any doubt at all about their application to my personal circumstances, would be putting my questions in writing to the 

Administrators before taking any action on retirement, partial or otherwise.

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/knowledge-centre/pension-schemes/nuvos-scheme-guide/working-later-in-life/

If you are considering re-employment after drawing your pension you should contact the Scheme Administrator (MyCSP) for further information about the impact on your pension.

marky_b_2

hugheskevi said:

marky_b_2 said:

He said the wording around the Classic pension scheme is that if you wish to take Classic and continue working then you have to leave the Civil Service Pension scheme, he has joined Partnership and has said this breaks the link.

You can commence a pension from deferred status or from active status. If commenced from active status it must be through Partial Retirement. Partnership is irrelevant, all that matters is that a member is commencing pension from deferred status and switching to Partnership is a way to achieve that whilst still receiving employer pension contributions.

marky_b_2 said:

He said the wording has been changed for Alpha in that you have to go Partial retirement or quit your job in order to claim your pension

The rules around commencing pension are set out in the classic (1972) and alpha scheme rules. The drafting is quite different between the two schemes.

Alpha does not have any abatement clauses.

marky_b_2 said:

I have tried a search but cant find the rules which mention this, but I am wondering if the same wording would also apply for the Premium pension scheme?

Premium scheme rules are different to both classic and alpha rules. There is no way to avoid abatement in Premium.

marky_b_2 said:

I work with a few people aged close to 60, who are being told that the department cant accommodate any more partial retirement's in the future.

The abatement and Partial Retirement rules in conjunction with moving all members from NPA 60/65 schemes into an NPA=SPA scheme and how this would affect the demand for Partial Retirement have been well known and discussed since at least 2015. They lead to older members having strong incentives to ask for different FTE working arrangements, ranging from between about 40-70% depending on individual circumstances.

Now these things are causing an issue rather than being expected to cause issues, perhaps action may be taken.

I have also advised them that they would be taken a big hit on their Alpha pension so they'd really need to work out the best scenario for their circumstances.

This is an interesting example of loss aversion. Alpha has a higher accrual rate and in return has a higher Normal Pension age than the NPA 60 schemes. But taking alpha at age 60 is often about the same pension outcome as taking the NPA 60 schemes at that 60. If alpha had been given an NPA of 60 and a lower accrual rate, then people probably wouldn't be as keen to work past 60 and get an actuarially increased pension.

Thanks again for your replies on this thread as well as others.

marky_b_2

xylophone said:

They are wanting to work by 60, I have mentioned to them about the above classic situation but I have also advised them that they would be taken a big hit on their Alpha pension so they'd really need to work out the best scenario for their circumstances.

Are you qualified/authorised to "advise"?

If I were concerned about so important a matter, I would be requesting a copy of the Rules of my Scheme and any amendments

and if in any doubt at all about their application to my personal circumstances, would be putting my questions in writing to the 

Administrators before taking any action on retirement, partial or otherwise.

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/knowledge-centre/pension-schemes/nuvos-scheme-guide/working-later-in-life/

If you are considering re-employment after drawing your pension you should contact the Scheme Administrator (MyCSP) for further information about the impact on your pension.

When I say advise, what I meant was that I spoke to them about the above scenario taking their Classic pension without needing to go down the Partial retirement route.

I didn't know if this could be done, that's why I posted the question here.

I then said it would have a knock on effect on their Alpha pension as that would be stopping if they moved to Partnership.

I also said they would have to work out what's best for them.

At no point have I said to anyone to do this, I was merely pointing out that their could be a potential to continue working full time past aged 60 and collect their Classic pension without abatement if the Partial retirement route was closed off to them.

I agree with you that they should contact the Pension department if they decide to go down this route, I have done this myself about Partial retirement but I was getting different answers to the same question regarding my deferred Classic pension so I don't have 100% faith in them.

I have learned more about Civil Service pension from hugheskevi as well as others on this website than I have from my pension department.

Thanks for the reply 



 

marky_b_2

Andy_L said:

I can't see anyway that he shouldn't be suffering abatement. The rules are quite clear.

I suspect the pension people haven't noticed/been told he's working for the CS and as soon as they do they will apply it

Not sure Andy, but this is what he posted, which made me raise the question here.

My journey was I moved into Alpha 2015 from Classic. I knew nothing about a Partnership scheme until I came across it via the Good old Defence bulletin board. So with 31 years in Classic 2.5 years in Alpha I switched to Partnership in 2017( originally you had a choice of 3 companies, now its just L&G.) I didn't like the thought of waiting till 67 years old to draw my Alpha. After some investigating I realised that by leaving the PCSPS I could now draw my deferred pension. I nearly drew it aged 56 but that would have been 4 years early so I decided to wait. At 58 I did it. My pension was now only reduced by 2 years. Reduced due to taking it 2 years early but getting it now. Pension went up over 10% last year thanks yo C.P.I I filled out the form to switch to partnership, its on the civil service pension site. A couple of months before my 58 birthday I completed the claim my pension form again found on the civil service website. Eventually the paperwork arrived, it gave me 2 options, 1ST was everything calculated using Classic, 2nd was Classic and Alpha calculated separately. I chose the 1st option as it was more than the other. If you don't like the numbers then you just leave it. Remember that you can always opt back into Alpha.
So in summary, I now have my civil service pension, lump sum etc, I commuted max amount of pension for larger lump sum. Pension is unabated, I still work full time same civil servant same job. The M.O.D. have been contributing into Partnership since 2017. Built up a tidy sum which I draw as lump sums as and when because you can access that from the age of 55. For me a no brainer.
I must say I am no expert so always seek professional advice.

xylophone

When I say advise, what I meant was that I spoke to them about the above scenario taking their Classic pension without needing to go down the Partial retirement route.

Understood.

I agree with you that they should contact the Pension department if they decide to go down this route, I have done this myself about Partial retirement but I was getting different answers to the same question regarding my deferred Classic pension so I don't have 100% faith in them.

But if the Administrator gets it wrong, then the enquirer has some recourse.

Andy_L

marky_b_2 said:

Andy_L said:

I can't see anyway that he shouldn't be suffering abatement. The rules are quite clear.

I suspect the pension people haven't noticed/been told he's working for the CS and as soon as they do they will apply it

Not sure Andy, but this is what he posted, which made me raise the question here.

My journey was I moved into Alpha 2015 from Classic. I knew nothing about a Partnership scheme until I came across it via the Good old Defence bulletin board. So with 31 years in Classic 2.5 years in Alpha I switched to Partnership in 2017( originally you had a choice of 3 companies, now its just L&G.) I didn't like the thought of waiting till 67 years old to draw my Alpha. After some investigating I realised that by leaving the PCSPS I could now draw my deferred pension. I nearly drew it aged 56 but that would have been 4 years early so I decided to wait. At 58 I did it. My pension was now only reduced by 2 years. Reduced due to taking it 2 years early but getting it now. Pension went up over 10% last year thanks yo C.P.I I filled out the form to switch to partnership, its on the civil service pension site. A couple of months before my 58 birthday I completed the claim my pension form again found on the civil service website. Eventually the paperwork arrived, it gave me 2 options, 1ST was everything calculated using Classic, 2nd was Classic and Alpha calculated separately. I chose the 1st option as it was more than the other. If you don't like the numbers then you just leave it. Remember that you can always opt back into Alpha.
So in summary, I now have my civil service pension, lump sum etc, I commuted max amount of pension for larger lump sum. Pension is unabated, I still work full time same civil servant same job. The M.O.D. have been contributing into Partnership since 2017. Built up a tidy sum which I draw as lump sums as and when because you can access that from the age of 55. For me a no brainer.
I must say I am no expert so always seek professional advice.

I can see nothing in there that suggests why abatement shouldn't apply to his classic pension.
I'm backing admin/HR !!!!!!-up as the reason

marky_b_2

Andy_L said:

marky_b_2 said:

Andy_L said:

I can't see anyway that he shouldn't be suffering abatement. The rules are quite clear.

I suspect the pension people haven't noticed/been told he's working for the CS and as soon as they do they will apply it

Not sure Andy, but this is what he posted, which made me raise the question here.

My journey was I moved into Alpha 2015 from Classic. I knew nothing about a Partnership scheme until I came across it via the Good old Defence bulletin board. So with 31 years in Classic 2.5 years in Alpha I switched to Partnership in 2017( originally you had a choice of 3 companies, now its just L&G.) I didn't like the thought of waiting till 67 years old to draw my Alpha. After some investigating I realised that by leaving the PCSPS I could now draw my deferred pension. I nearly drew it aged 56 but that would have been 4 years early so I decided to wait. At 58 I did it. My pension was now only reduced by 2 years. Reduced due to taking it 2 years early but getting it now. Pension went up over 10% last year thanks yo C.P.I I filled out the form to switch to partnership, its on the civil service pension site. A couple of months before my 58 birthday I completed the claim my pension form again found on the civil service website. Eventually the paperwork arrived, it gave me 2 options, 1ST was everything calculated using Classic, 2nd was Classic and Alpha calculated separately. I chose the 1st option as it was more than the other. If you don't like the numbers then you just leave it. Remember that you can always opt back into Alpha.
So in summary, I now have my civil service pension, lump sum etc, I commuted max amount of pension for larger lump sum. Pension is unabated, I still work full time same civil servant same job. The M.O.D. have been contributing into Partnership since 2017. Built up a tidy sum which I draw as lump sums as and when because you can access that from the age of 55. For me a no brainer.
I must say I am no expert so always seek professional advice.

I can see nothing in there that suggests why abatement shouldn't apply to his classic pension.
I'm backing admin/HR !!!!!!-up as the reason

Andy, another poster said that they phoned up today and CSP also said this works with the Premium pension as well as confirming the Classic.

They have asked CSP to confirm in it writing.

As I stated in an earlier message, I don't have 100% confidence in the answers CSP provide.

The original guy is adamant that he isn't suffering abatement.

hugheskevi

marky_b_2 said:

Andy_L said:

marky_b_2 said:

Andy_L said:

I can't see anyway that he shouldn't be suffering abatement. The rules are quite clear.

I suspect the pension people haven't noticed/been told he's working for the CS and as soon as they do they will apply it

Not sure Andy, but this is what he posted, which made me raise the question here.

My journey was I moved into Alpha 2015 from Classic. I knew nothing about a Partnership scheme until I came across it via the Good old Defence bulletin board. So with 31 years in Classic 2.5 years in Alpha I switched to Partnership in 2017( originally you had a choice of 3 companies, now its just L&G.) I didn't like the thought of waiting till 67 years old to draw my Alpha. After some investigating I realised that by leaving the PCSPS I could now draw my deferred pension. I nearly drew it aged 56 but that would have been 4 years early so I decided to wait. At 58 I did it. My pension was now only reduced by 2 years. Reduced due to taking it 2 years early but getting it now. Pension went up over 10% last year thanks yo C.P.I I filled out the form to switch to partnership, its on the civil service pension site. A couple of months before my 58 birthday I completed the claim my pension form again found on the civil service website. Eventually the paperwork arrived, it gave me 2 options, 1ST was everything calculated using Classic, 2nd was Classic and Alpha calculated separately. I chose the 1st option as it was more than the other. If you don't like the numbers then you just leave it. Remember that you can always opt back into Alpha.
So in summary, I now have my civil service pension, lump sum etc, I commuted max amount of pension for larger lump sum. Pension is unabated, I still work full time same civil servant same job. The M.O.D. have been contributing into Partnership since 2017. Built up a tidy sum which I draw as lump sums as and when because you can access that from the age of 55. For me a no brainer.
I must say I am no expert so always seek professional advice.

I can see nothing in there that suggests why abatement shouldn't apply to his classic pension.
I'm backing admin/HR !!!!!!-up as the reason

Andy, another poster said that they phoned up today and CSP also said this works with the Premium pension as well as confirming the Classic.

They have asked CSP to confirm in it writing.

As I stated in an earlier message, I don't have 100% confidence in the answers CSP provide.

The original guy is adamant that he isn't suffering abatement.

It would be wise to ask for the specific Premium scheme rule upon which they are relying to make that statement, as even if an administrator gives something in writing it is scheme rules which will prevail at a later date, and any incorrect advice given by an administrator is unlikely to amount to more than a few hundred pound after a complaint process.