Spray foam insulation removal - consumer rights query

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said:  As for condensation, I'd have thought that the foam-protected rafter sides would be much less likely to have cond forming on them due to the foam, so that shouldn't be an issue? I don't know.

3) if it is applied incorrectly in another manner - and I'm still not sure if Ch37's example has been with their reference to foam seeping through the ceiling - then it could reduce the necessary ventilation within the loft space. Just as with normal loft insulation laid on the loft floor, the foam shouldn't seal the eaves of the loft space, which is where most of the ventilation comes from. If they do cover the eaves, expect lots of condensation up there.

If you are ventilating the loft space sufficiently to keep condensation to a minimum, you are also removing all the nice warm air rising from the rooms below. In effect, bypassing the insulation sprayed on to the underside of the roof.

If you are insulating, it needs to be applied at the point where the heat loss occurs. e.g. You have a hot water cylinder for DHW. Absolutely no point in insulating the walls of the room, you apply insulation around the tank.

ThisIsWeird

FreeBear said:

If you are ventilating the loft space sufficiently to keep condensation to a minimum, you are also removing all the nice warm air rising from the rooms below. In effect, bypassing the insulation sprayed on to the underside of the roof.

If you are insulating, it needs to be applied at the point where the heat loss occurs. e.g. You have a hot water cylinder for DHW. Absolutely no point in insulating the walls of the room, you apply insulation around the tank.

Precisely. So if it's been sold as 'home insulation', 'cut energy bills' that sort of stuff, then it's been mis-sold from the off. Actionable?

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said:

FreeBear said:

If you are ventilating the loft space sufficiently to keep condensation to a minimum, you are also removing all the nice warm air rising from the rooms below. In effect, bypassing the insulation sprayed on to the underside of the roof.

If you are insulating, it needs to be applied at the point where the heat loss occurs. e.g. You have a hot water cylinder for DHW. Absolutely no point in insulating the walls of the room, you apply insulation around the tank.

Precisely. So if it's been sold as 'home insulation', 'cut energy bills' that sort of stuff, then it's been mis-sold from the off. Actionable?

If it has been installed correctly, and in the right place, spray foam is indeed a good insulator. In North America, it is sprayed in to timber framed walls and between ceiling joists (insulating at the point of heat loss). Still, not without its problems.. Just do a search for "fish smell spray foam".

In the UK, most houses are not designed from the outset to have spray foam. Going legal against these companies that sell & install the stuff will put yourself up against their well funded legal departments. They will pull out BRA reports to support their claims (pay enough, the BRA will rubber stamp just about anything) along with any number of questionable studies. Or they could, as in the case of the OP, claim that they are only responsible for the materials used, and problems arising from faulty installation is down to the (now bust) installer. If you get a judge that can see through the bluster & dubious reports, you stand a good chance. But certainly go after the finance company on the grounds of mis-sold, and then go to the FCA if the claim is rejected. Save court action as a last resort.

Kelly5678

We had spray foam fitted by Homelogic in 2021. We had an official EPC certificate done in 2022 (just to see if the score had improved with the different jobs we had had done and so we could keep an eye on the true property value on Zoopla).
The certified EPC surveyor noticed that we had also installed a ventilation fan up in the roof and said it was a fantastic idea. No horror stories from him. He was impressed that we had the foresight to have a fan put in. 
Tell your friend this please.
The reason I have seen this post is because I have googled the topic this morning having received a scam call...
A lady called and said she was aware that we had had it installed by Homelogic. She called from a mobile number (I'm always wary if it's a mobile number) and said that Homelogic had gone bust. She said someone else would call to arrange an appointment for me if I wanted one.
Second lady called me (also mobile) and wanted to rush me into an appointment after lunchtime today. I agreed and then started googling. 
Homelogic is still active; this is on companies house. I called second lady to cancel the appointment, it rang out. I texted the mobile to say I needed to cancel. I was ignored.
So I called the first lady and explained that I needed to cancel but I was being ignored by the second lady. Having listened to me talk, she then cut me off!

FreeBear

Kelly5678 said:

We had spray foam fitted by [redacted] in 2021. We had an official EPC certificate done in 2022 (just to see if the score had improved with the different jobs we had had done and so we could keep an eye on the true property value on Zoopla).

The certified EPC surveyor noticed that we had also installed a ventilation fan up in the roof and said it was a fantastic idea. No horror stories from him. He was impressed that we had the foresight to have a fan put in.

Zoopla is a very poor way to keep track of the value of your home. At best, it should only be an indicator of what your house might sell for based on previous property sales in your area. It won't take in to account factors that affect the actual value of your house.

Fitting a ventilation fan in the roof space after having spray foam installed is good for getting rid of moist air. But it also gets rid of the warm air so kinda defeats the purpose of having insulation. On top of that, it increases your energy bill.

Treblebobbing

Cheatedhero37 said:

Hi, I am a newbie feeling outraged/baffled by the treatment of a confused/upset/very worried friend by a spray foam installation company and would really appreciate advice if possible.

In 2019 she arranged Home Logic to treat her loft with spray foam, all was fine. Or so we thought.

Last Monday 08th April she received a call with a request to arrange a visit to check the work, this happened 10th April 2024. The man said the installation firm Lapolla had been found to have cut corners and this was apparent in my friend’s house with no membrane between the foam and the rafters, roof, etc. Lapolla have now done a ‘fly by night’ and vanished (I checked Companies House, and the company was dissolved in 2022). However, the contract was with Home Logic not with Lapolla, and it was not explained at the time of agreeing to use Home Logic that the work would be contracted out.

My friend was then told that she could pay something in the region of £6,700 for removal of the foam (in addition to the original £4,000 she paid in 2019 to have it put in), and, while Home Logic guarantee the foam itself, the installation is not part of the guarantee. This part of the contract was pointed out to my friend by the visitor.

She was also told that time could be a factor as there is an opportunity to claim a government grant to assist with paying to have the foam removed, but this expires next week! I have not yet found any evidence of such a grant for removal of the foam.

I hope to see my friend today 11/04/24 or tomorrow and the paperwork she has been given. I am not even convinced of the legitimacy of the person she spoke to who checked the work.

I can confirm that there is no membrane – the foam (now dried) can be seen in the loft and where it ‘seeped’ into small gaps in the upstairs ceilings.

Having checked the issue out on the internet I am convinced that the foam needs to be removed. Surely Home Logic are liable? My friend agreed/signed a contract with Home Logic, not Lapolla, who would have been contracted by Home Logic and (hopefully) checked for all the necessary qualifications etc for installation of potentially toxic substances. Also, with any type of works conducted in the property should have been checked by Home Logic after the installation to ensure the quality of work conducted is compliant with safety standards. Or am I wrong?

What’s the update? Were you successful? Unbelievably, a year later and exactly the same has happened to me. Currently researching what to do next. I did pay on CC so think that’s my option. Did you have a new inspection done with a certificate issued or did you end up having it removed?