Worried about possible CIFAS marker

born_again

tomxlisa said:

Sorry to jump on this post but what are the signs that a CIFAS is held against you, is it constant applications being referred for manual review as I’ve read somewhere if you have a CIFAS your application doesn’t normally get instantly approved online, always wondered if I’ve got one but don’t worry about it too much, do you get notified if you get a CIFAS?.

In reality the only real way to get a CIFAS marker is if you get a "We are closing you account" immediately letter.

No you do not notified by them.

tomxlisa

@born_again

That doesn’t really make much sense to me, do you mean if I did have a CIFAS marker then my accounts would get closed down?. 

tomxlisa

@Nasqueron

I haven’t a clue if I’ve got a CIFAS marker or not, that’s my question was just wondering if you get notified if you do have one, cause I could have one without knowing I have one, that’s what I was kinda getting at, like do you know if you have one, or is it the silence marker until you actually check out of curiosity, or do most if not all credit applications get declined if you have one, is that the big sign you have a CIFAS marker, just trying to understand it that’s all. 

GeoffTF

tomxlisa said:

@born_again

That doesn’t really make much sense to me, do you mean if I did have a CIFAS marker then my accounts would get closed down?. 

My understanding is that the purpose of a CIFAS marker is to warn other banks, so that they can close your accounts. If none of your bank accounts are not being closed, you do not have a problem, for now at least. If all your bank accounts are being closed, you have a big problem.

Nasqueron

tomxlisa said:

@Nasqueron

I haven’t a clue if I’ve got a CIFAS marker or not, that’s my question was just wondering if you get notified if you do have one, cause I could have one without knowing I have one, that’s what I was kinda getting at, like do you know if you have one, or is it the silence marker until you actually check out of curiosity, or do most if not all credit applications get declined if you have one, is that the big sign you have a CIFAS marker, just trying to understand it that’s all. 

If you are concerned you have one, my advice stands - do a DSAR to CIFAS (and National Hunter just in case). You may get warned by the group requesting it, you may not. Hence safest is to ask if you were getting unexpected immediate declines

TheBanker

In case it reassures you, I used to be involved in approving CIFAS markers. The bar is quite high - it used to be something like there had to be sufficient evidence of fraud that would allow the case to be reported to the police (it did not actually have to be reported to the police, it was just the standard of evidence needed). CIFAS themselves undertook regular audits where they would review the evidence for a sample of cases. Certainly in my bank CIFAS markers were only applied after approval by a senior human, not automatically by a system or as a routine admin task. 

We also know, because there have been a number of published FOS decisions, that FOS apply quite a high bar when deciding whether a CIFAS marker is reasonable, so we factored this into our internal decision making processes.

TheBanker

MythicalOtter said:

TheBanker said:

In case it reassures you, I used to be involved in approving CIFAS markers. The bar is quite high - it used to be something like there had to be sufficient evidence of fraud that would allow the case to be reported to the police (it did not actually have to be reported to the police, it was just the standard of evidence needed). CIFAS themselves undertook regular audits where they would review the evidence for a sample of cases. Certainly in my bank CIFAS markers were only applied after approval by a senior human, not automatically by a system or as a routine admin task. 

We also know, because there have been a number of published FOS decisions, that FOS apply quite a high bar when deciding whether a CIFAS marker is reasonable, so we factored this into our internal decision making processes.

Thank you - this is good and reassuring to know. I’ve now got back my CIFAS DSAR and there is only a search, but that’s from another organisation. No markers which is relieving (unless it is just not logged yet). It’s really crippling being so worried about everything, so thank you all for your help - it has really helped put my mind at ease while I was waiting for the DSARs. I’m aware how not understanding the train operators are to genuine evidenced mistakes - I think I carried over this concern to this case. I will stay away from this lender, and contact future providers before in case they have income criteria that their forms also don’t make clear.

Honestly I think you are worrying about nothing, so please try not to.

I know train operators are unforgiving of mistakes, but they are not subject to the same level of regulation (in terms of fare enforcement) as banks are. A bank has to consider laws (including Data Protection/GDPR), FCA regulations, CIFAS' own rules, and the likely reaction of the Financial Ombudsman Service when deciding whether to apply a CIFAS marker. 

I don't think you even need to contact future lenders, just answer the question honestly based on what the form asks for. Most of them ask for income and have a note saying what should/should not be included. 

tomxlisa

Nasqueron said:

tomxlisa said:

@Nasqueron

I haven’t a clue if I’ve got a CIFAS marker or not, that’s my question was just wondering if you get notified if you do have one, cause I could have one without knowing I have one, that’s what I was kinda getting at, like do you know if you have one, or is it the silence marker until you actually check out of curiosity, or do most if not all credit applications get declined if you have one, is that the big sign you have a CIFAS marker, just trying to understand it that’s all. 

If you are concerned you have one, my advice stands - do a DSAR to CIFAS (and National Hunter just in case). You may get warned by the group requesting it, you may not. Hence safest is to ask if you were getting unexpected immediate declines

Are there any signs that you might have one like applications being referred all the time etc, I don’t think I do have one and don’t have any reason to think I will have one just im a bit of a over thinker at times and if one application gets referred I start to think why it could be and could it be a CIFAS etc, like recently I had a application referred for a CC but then my next application was instantly accepted, so maybe it’s just the way it roles sometimes with applications but again as I’m a over thinker I start to wonder why and could it be a CIFAS, I’m guessing if I had one though wouldn’t that mean a decline for any credit applications or do they still get accepted, I’m guessing nothing would be accepted instantly though, would all be referred if someone had a CIFAS?.

TheBanker

tomxlisa said:

Nasqueron said:

tomxlisa said:

@Nasqueron

I haven’t a clue if I’ve got a CIFAS marker or not, that’s my question was just wondering if you get notified if you do have one, cause I could have one without knowing I have one, that’s what I was kinda getting at, like do you know if you have one, or is it the silence marker until you actually check out of curiosity, or do most if not all credit applications get declined if you have one, is that the big sign you have a CIFAS marker, just trying to understand it that’s all. 

If you are concerned you have one, my advice stands - do a DSAR to CIFAS (and National Hunter just in case). You may get warned by the group requesting it, you may not. Hence safest is to ask if you were getting unexpected immediate declines

Are there any signs that you might have one like applications being referred all the time etc, I don’t think I do have one and don’t have any reason to think I will have one just im a bit of a over thinker at times and if one application gets referred I start to think why it could be and could it be a CIFAS etc, like recently I had a application referred for a CC but then my next application was instantly accepted, so maybe it’s just the way it roles sometimes with applications but again as I’m a over thinker I start to wonder why and could it be a CIFAS, I’m guessing if I had one though wouldn’t that mean a decline for any credit applications or do they still get accepted, I’m guessing nothing would be accepted instantly though, would all be referred if someone had a CIFAS?.

A bank is not allowed to automatically decline an application due to a CIFAS marker. They have to investigate. This investigation may, or may not involve asking for more information from the applicant. This depends on the type of CIFAS marker and what information the bank have already gathered as part of the application.

But applications being referred doesn't mean there's a CIFAS marker. Each bank has its own processes, some of which will be more automated than others. Sometimes delays in receiving a decision can be due to system downtime and nothing to do with the specifics of your application. Sometimes a bank will have experienced an increase in fraudulent applications so will refer more applications for review by underwriters. 

Why do you think you might have a CIFAS marker? Have you had bank accounts closed, for example?

Nasqueron

tomxlisa said:

Nasqueron said:

tomxlisa said:

@Nasqueron

I haven’t a clue if I’ve got a CIFAS marker or not, that’s my question was just wondering if you get notified if you do have one, cause I could have one without knowing I have one, that’s what I was kinda getting at, like do you know if you have one, or is it the silence marker until you actually check out of curiosity, or do most if not all credit applications get declined if you have one, is that the big sign you have a CIFAS marker, just trying to understand it that’s all. 

If you are concerned you have one, my advice stands - do a DSAR to CIFAS (and National Hunter just in case). You may get warned by the group requesting it, you may not. Hence safest is to ask if you were getting unexpected immediate declines

Are there any signs that you might have one like applications being referred all the time etc, I don’t think I do have one and don’t have any reason to think I will have one just im a bit of a over thinker at times and if one application gets referred I start to think why it could be and could it be a CIFAS etc, like recently I had a application referred for a CC but then my next application was instantly accepted, so maybe it’s just the way it roles sometimes with applications but again as I’m a over thinker I start to wonder why and could it be a CIFAS, I’m guessing if I had one though wouldn’t that mean a decline for any credit applications or do they still get accepted, I’m guessing nothing would be accepted instantly though, would all be referred if someone had a CIFAS?.

It would depend on the type, CIFAS can be positive as well as negative e.g. if you were a victim of attempted ID fraud, you might get a protective marker to stop people opening more accounts in your name - that would mean further investigation before accounts opened but would not result in accounts being refused automatically. A CIFAS for fraud however might well be.

If you are worried, do a DSAR as I stated, it will tell you if you do or not