Complaining to SJP

feghna1

I want to make a complaint to St James' Place regarding the poor service I have received since starting my pension fund with them. My question is: should I complain while I am their client or should I transfer my account to another provide first before making the complaint?

tacpot12

You are likely to get a better resolution to your complaint if you remain a customer.

Marcon

feghna1 said:

I want to make a complaint to St James' Place regarding the poor service I have received since starting my pension fund with them. My question is: should I complain while I am their client or should I transfer my account to another provide first before making the complaint?

If the complaint is about poor service rather than poor fund performance, then it would make sense to complain while you are still a customer and then take a view on whether you actually want to transfer away.

Hoenir

What's your desired outcome or objective? 

dunstonh

feghna1 said:

I want to make a complaint to St James' Place regarding the poor service I have received since starting my pension fund with them. My question is: should I complain while I am their client or should I transfer my account to another provide first before making the complaint?

Is this an advice issue or a service issue?    
What have they done that you consider poor? 

feghna1

Hoenir said:

What's your desired outcome or objective? 

I’m hoping for some kind of compensation. Basically they haven't provided the services for which they’re charging fees for like regular review meetings and also they didn’t make their charges clear at the onset. 

feghna1

dunstonh said:

feghna1 said:

I want to make a complaint to St James' Place regarding the poor service I have received since starting my pension fund with them. My question is: should I complain while I am their client or should I transfer my account to another provide first before making the complaint?

Is this an advice issue or a service issue?    
What have they done that you consider poor? 

Service issue. Basically they haven't provided the services for which they’re charging fees for like regular review meetings and also they didn’t make their charges clear at the onset. Their charges are quite high.

dunstonh

feghna1 said:

dunstonh said:

feghna1 said:

I want to make a complaint to St James' Place regarding the poor service I have received since starting my pension fund with them. My question is: should I complain while I am their client or should I transfer my account to another provide first before making the complaint?

Is this an advice issue or a service issue?    
What have they done that you consider poor? 

Service issue. Basically they haven't provided the services for which they’re charging fees for like regular review meetings and also they didn’t make their charges clear at the onset. Their charges are quite high.

Did you employ them to provide an ongoing service?
Did the sale of your product take place before 1st January 2013 or after (key date as pre RDR sales did not require an ongoing service to be provided.  It only applies to post RDR sales or where there has been a disturbance event on a pre-RDR sale)?
Basically, if its a pre 2013 sale then they didn't need to provide a service.   
And the requirement for any service to be annual only started in 2018 and only applies to unit trusts/OEICs and not pensions/life insurance based investments.

Pat38493

dunstonh said:

feghna1 said:

dunstonh said:

feghna1 said:

I want to make a complaint to St James' Place regarding the poor service I have received since starting my pension fund with them. My question is: should I complain while I am their client or should I transfer my account to another provide first before making the complaint?

Is this an advice issue or a service issue?    
What have they done that you consider poor? 

Service issue. Basically they haven't provided the services for which they’re charging fees for like regular review meetings and also they didn’t make their charges clear at the onset. Their charges are quite high.

Did you employ them to provide an ongoing service?
Did the sale of your product take place before 1st January 2013 or after (key date as pre RDR sales did not require an ongoing service to be provided.  It only applies to post RDR sales or where there has been a disturbance event on a pre-RDR sale)?
Basically, if its a pre 2013 sale then they didn't need to provide a service.   
And the requirement for any service to be annual only started in 2018 and only applies to unit trusts/OEICs and not pensions/life insurance based investments.

What is a disturbance event?

dunstonh

Pat38493 said:

dunstonh said:

feghna1 said:

dunstonh said:

feghna1 said:

I want to make a complaint to St James' Place regarding the poor service I have received since starting my pension fund with them. My question is: should I complain while I am their client or should I transfer my account to another provide first before making the complaint?

Is this an advice issue or a service issue?    
What have they done that you consider poor? 

Service issue. Basically they haven't provided the services for which they’re charging fees for like regular review meetings and also they didn’t make their charges clear at the onset. Their charges are quite high.

Did you employ them to provide an ongoing service?
Did the sale of your product take place before 1st January 2013 or after (key date as pre RDR sales did not require an ongoing service to be provided.  It only applies to post RDR sales or where there has been a disturbance event on a pre-RDR sale)?
Basically, if its a pre 2013 sale then they didn't need to provide a service.   
And the requirement for any service to be annual only started in 2018 and only applies to unit trusts/OEICs and not pensions/life insurance based investments.

What is a disturbance event?

FCA terminology - its where a plan undergoes a change instigated by the adviser.    So, say the adviser hasn't changed any of the funds and they are the same as they were pre 2013, then that would be undisturbed.   Going into drawdown via the adviser would be a disturbance event.

If disturbed, the pre RDR plan then gets captured under post 2013 rules.    SJP don't tend to let their sales reps change the funds, apart form risk changes.    So, there isn't usually a disturbance event on these old plans.   

And as mentioned, insurance and pension funds are not captured by MiFIDII.  That was the EU directive in 2018 that brought in the rule "at least annually".       So, a pre RDR pension using insured funds that have not be changed by the adviser would not require an ongoing service to be provided. 

This is why you see the claims companies mentioned "in the last 10 years" or 2013 onwards.

gm0

Hmmm - FAs are normally quite good at getting client signatures on their very difficult to read protective of them contracts. But some muck it up so your specific case is its own thing.  Gather old papers and correspondence and check.

Misunderstanding what you thought was said in discussion vs what the (signed) contract says once it all comes together and costs add up - is something else.  And more common.  You and the wealth manager discover later how cost insensitive you really are (or not).

You can admire the services sales - the sheep shearing skills of FA salesmen in general while still being slightly appallled by the bamboozling of naive consumers and the professional ethics of it all.  It's a services sales game. But *mostly* played to the legal rules even if we don't much care for it.   Sins of omission and "accidental" misdirection verbally via complexity are way more common than outright bare faced lies especially auditable ones.  The bigger firms did not get big by being bad at this.

Now moving on to SJP specifically rather than denouncing FA's in general.

The SJP exit fee issue

The media has covered Exit fee (called ERC) stopping at SJP for new customers now. 
And as a customer you should have seen the vague "changes are coming"  non-specific noise in the 2023 year end reports. But existing clients today - still owe it ramping down for new money added in (ramp over several years.   If they pull away. 

Timing of ERC disappearing for *you* - is a question for your adviser at the right time in the conversation around better service staying or ease of leaving.

But I expect by 2025 or so exit fees will go. For existing customers when they run the expected nailed on revenue out of their accounting projection. This is pure speculation. No announcement beyond the cryptic statement at year end.
FCA *could* act more swiftly to ban exit fees with a shorter time to implementation. But that would be something of a first being more a marathon jogger than a sprinter.

So work out what *you* want to achieve.  More attention and token payment for service lapses.  Subsidised exit around ERC this year?

Do the sums on what happens next, is there another intial charge to go to an IFA (or not for DIY).

Model the new solution costs. And work out the break even to be free at the new cost level and clear of the costs of transition with your new adviser or own solution.

Perhaps you can get rid of the ERC at the SJP end by a compensation payment via complaint for an actual evidenced servicing misstep. Or you just wait for it to go carrying the extra run cost for a couple of years.  Your choice and risk.

The chances of being able to get either substantive initial charges or now pereceived as excessive run costs back is extremely low.  The ombudsman might help you get a small payment for them failing on servicing (if they did) vs FCA obligation rather than expectations.  But don't expect miracles.

A couple of months waiting for a rejection deadlock letter to formal complaint (as with all providers if they don't cave in with some offer.

Discovering too late that the product isn't magic in terms of better performance and that the product+advice bundle is very expensive vs alternatives available doing a similar thing doesn't frustrate a properly executed existing contract. 

It's a fleecing - but a legal one.

If trust is entirely gone. Trade out of this contract - either now, or later. 

Do the sums.  Decide on advised again (IFA) or DIY if "done" with financial advisers. 

Your case could be the REALLY bad behaviour, sloppy contracting with evidence in audit trail exception. 

Most are not.