Cancelled car insurance

DullGreyGuy

lordmountararat said:

Cancelled insurance is not the same as refused insurance. Your insurance was cancelled because of an administrative confusion, not because you did anything wrong. You haven't been refused insurance, so I think if you explain the circumstances, and maybe offer to pay the whole premium up front, you'll be OK, but maybe best to organise it through a broker.

Insures ask about cancelled policies as well as refused... refused rarely applies because we now trade digitally but cancelled is still a very real problem. The OP will have to declare having had a policy cancelled for non-payment going forward. 

TooManyPoints said:

...but currently whilst insuring the truthful answer is yes you have had a policy cancelled

I'd take a slightly different view. It seems to me his policy expired and he chose not to renew it. After it expired, since he didn't renew it, it could not be cancelled. Unless, that is, the insurer provided cover after expiry without ensuring payment had been made. Then it would be arguable whether you were deemed, by default, to have renewed unless you told them you didn't wish to.

You may have a different view but it's not correct, non-payment does not equal cancellation by the policy holder any more than if you got to payday and suddenly found you hadn't been paid and when you asked your boss he tells you he fired you last month but didnt tell you however it should be obvious because you aren't being paid.

The policy renews first, inline with the renewal notification, and payment is then attempted. Failure of that payment will trigger the non-payment process and in the meantime the person is still insured. Given thousands of payments fail every day that would be a lot of uninsured drivers out there if they took your route of assuming it meant cover wasn't wanted despite having no communication to that effect. The OP is over a month later and only now found out, that'd been a fair few penalty points plus some costly claims if they'd been unfortunate to have been in an accident in that period. 

Nobbie1967

Car_54 said:

No money changed hands, so there was no contract to cancel?

That is not what contract law says, only that there must be a ‘consideration’ as part of a contract, it doesn’t have to change hands for the contract to exist.

MajicMOLE

Thankyou all for the advice and messages.  Apologies for the delay but have just returned from a weeks holiday!

Update, as the plot thickens...

Insurer is Sheila's Wheel's. 
- Turns out I have never received a renewal quote from them, despite them saying they have sent it
- all the documentation on the online portal referring to this year's policy is actually last years documentation (for example, certificate of motor insurance, t&cs, etc)
- the bank account on file they have was my old bank account , albeit still live (I moved to chase) - however, the account did actually have sufficient funds in.  After contacting the bank, they have confirmed no payment has attempted to be taken, and no payments have been declined
- any letters & emails they are claiming to have sent, have not been received.  I check my spam twice weekly too so it would have been noticed

This is clearly a system error.  I have opened a complaint with Sheila's Wheels and they offered a £60 good will gesture - which I have rejected - as the resolution I expect from them is to also ensure any record of insurance cancelation removed from any databases.  They are now processing the complaint and have said they will respond within 8 weeks - not ideal!  If they don't resolve I will take it up with the ombudsman.

I have so far evidence of the following, shared with Sheila's Wheels:
- a screen recording of their online portal showing any documentation I should have received.   No note of a renewal, or letters stating payment problems (only cancelation)
- also shows the cancelled policy's documents, which are in fact last years documentation (23-24, not 24-25)
- evidence from the bank stating they have not had any payment attempts from the insurer, and no attempted payments have been declined
- a screenshot / list of any emails received from "Sheila's Wheel's" - although I know the value of this may be low as emails can be deleted

As I need to get this car insured now that I'm back from holiday, I guess my only option is to take out a new policy stating that I have had insurance cancelled previously, which more than doubles the premium (£220 to £500)? Until I get written confirmation from Sheila's Wheels / Esure that this has been removed, and then ensure I peruse the different of this cost as part of the complaint with the insurer? 

TooManyPoints

I composed this last week, but decided against posting it as I considered it was too “off topic”. Your latest post made me change my mind.

------

You may have a different view but it's not correct, non-payment does not equal cancellation ....etc.

Thanks for that. What follows is by way of discussion as I now understand the process adopted by most insurers thanks to your kind explanation.

What you have said actually leaves me with some profound misgivings. I've just looked at my last renewal notice and, as you suggest, the policy will renew unless I tell them otherwise and it also says that a new contract begins upon renewal. My misgivings stem from the fact that the renewal is performed unilaterally. The insurer relies upon the policyholder to let them know he does not wish to renew, otherwise the renewal takes place - even without payment. Although a failure of that payment does not lead to immediate cancellation, eventually it does.

None of this would really matter if it was, say, a magazine subscription; one cancelled in this manner would cause no great harm. But the cancellation of an insurance policy - particularly a motor policy - has a profound effect. Unlike a driving conviction, which is time bound by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, a cancellation, which insurers consider a justification to increase premiums, must be declared forever. The result of this can be very expensive for a driver.

This OP has simply committed an administrative oversight (the bank details the insurers held were no longer valid). He had not withheld details of convictions; he had not failed to disclose modifications to his car or done anything else which would otherwise warrant the cancellation of his policy. He simply forgot to inform his insurers that his bank details had changed. 

It wouldn’t happen to me because I’m proactive with my insurance renewals. I know when they’re due and shop around before the renewal date. But not everyone is so diligent (or perhaps they simply don’t have enough time). I understand the advantage this process gives the policyholder in that continuous cover is maintained. Though I have to say most people of my acquaintance never found it to be  a problem before auto-renewal was introduced. But when things go wrong – as they have here – the consequences for the policyholder are disastrous and long lasting.

I believe insurers either need to stop auto-renewals by default or (perhaps a better solution) they should introduce a different marker rather than the blunt “cancellation” seen here. Policyholders in the OP’s situation should not suffer a life-long “cancellation” on their insurance record. A policy cancellation marker should be reserved for matters involving deceit or fraud. if it is deemed necessary to stigmatise for life somebody who simply forgot to inform their insurer of their new bank details then a separate, less serious marker should be provided and it should be time bound. I know of no legislation (bar that for the punishment of serious criminal offences) which provides for a lifelong penalty to be imposed on somebody who is guilty of nothing other than a minor administrative mistake. 
-------

In fact, the situation is now even worse that I first thought. I firstly thought that you may shoulder some of the blame for the cancellation you suffered. This now seems not to be the case. If insurers are going to operate this unilateral auto-renewal process they need to get it right. It is simply not good enough for them to mess up like this, leaving you with the problem of securing cover with a bogus policy cancellation against your name, and calmly informing you that it will take eight weeks to investigate (and even then with no guarantee of a satisfactory outcome).

It reinforces my view that a policy that was subject to auto-renewal and which failed to renew for whatever reason, should not be treated in the same way as other policy cancellations.

facade

MajicMOLE said:

<snip>

Insurer is Sheila's Wheel's. 
- Turns out I have never received a renewal quote from them, despite them saying they have sent it
- all the documentation on the online portal referring to this year's policy is actually last years documentation (for example, certificate of motor insurance, t&cs, etc)

<snip>

Not quite the same, but my car and house are with another insurer that may begin with a vowel (but the same company as Sheila's Wheels).

When the house renewal came up I downloaded the renewal invitation from the portal, and it was reasonable, so I let it auto renew, and they charged me £40 more!

I was about to spend half an hour arguing with the call centre in India* when I read the renewal letter again thoroughly (in case I am developing Alzheimers) and it is dated 2023 not 2024! (last year's letter again)

I just checked, and all the policy documents I downloaded on 10/3/24 after renewal (start date 01/03/24) are last years! Shock, outrage!

So I just went back and downloaded the ones that claim to have been updated on 16/02/24 (23 days before I downloaded the "wrong" ones) and they are magically this years!

I suspect them going web only has messed everything up, screenshot any dealings you have with them, download everything and keep it for the Ombudsman.

*they are pretty much web only now, I tried ringing to discuss my car renewal being sky high and eventually I got through to a heavily Indian accented voice on a faint line who just said "If that is the price it is the best price". I suspect she had very little to do with my insurer, so I saved £100 by just going with Aviva.

Ibrahim5

Admiral will not take your renewal premium until a day or two AFTER the renewal date. I only feel happy that I am insured when I have paid the premium. I begged them and made multiple phone calls but they would not take payment. I would have loved to have changed company but they were much cheaper. In the end I drove a different car and didn't use the Admiral one until they had finally taken payment. I don't know why they won't. Businesses used to like taking money.

comeandgo

OP I had the same problem, different company though,  and I have to tell all and any insurance company, house, travel, car about the cancelled policy.  The company had given me a letter stating I now had cancelled policy and this information is shared with other companies so there is no way I could ignore it.  I explain to any new insurance company and it has made not an iota on any policies I have since bought.  I’m assuming as this is the only thing that would be showing on my credit reports, otherwise they would be clean.  This is just to let you know you may have to phone insurance companies and explain the problem rather than just use internet..

DullGreyGuy

Ibrahim5 said:

Admiral will not take your renewal premium until a day or two AFTER the renewal date. I only feel happy that I am insured when I have paid the premium. I begged them and made multiple phone calls but they would not take payment. I would have loved to have changed company but they were much cheaper. In the end I drove a different car and didn't use the Admiral one until they had finally taken payment. I don't know why they won't. Businesses used to like taking money.

Thats how most insurers work as you have until 1 minute before renewal to decide not to renew and it would put financial strain on some customers if their £1,000 premium has already been taken, they now need to wait for a refund and be able to afford the £999.95 their new insurer is charging whilst awaiting the refund. 

Much cleaner and easier for customers to only take the payment once the renewal has happened. In the UK cover starts when the policy does, it's not like China where your cover can only start after the insurer has received premiums. 

TooManyPoints

In the UK cover starts when the policy does, it's not like China where your cover can only start after the insurer has received premiums. 

However, it's arguable whether this policy ever "started":

Insurer is Sheila's Wheel's. 

- Turns out I have never received a renewal quote from them, despite them saying they have sent it

- all the documentation on the online portal referring to this year's policy is actually last years documentation (for example, certificate of motor insurance, t&cs, etc)

- the bank account on file they have was my old bank account , albeit still live (I moved to chase) - however, the account did actually have sufficient funds in.  After contacting the bank, they have confirmed no payment has attempted to be taken, and no payments have been declined

- any letters & emails they are claiming to have sent, have not been received.  I check my spam twice weekly too so it would have been noticed

I have so far evidence of the following, shared with Sheila's Wheels:

- a screen recording of their online portal showing any documentation I should have received.   No note of a renewal, or letters stating payment problems (only cancelation)

- also shows the cancelled policy's documents, which are in fact last years documentation (23-24, not 24-25)

- evidence from the bank stating they have not had any payment attempts from the insurer, and no attempted payments have been declined

- a screenshot / list of any emails received from "Sheila's Wheel's" - although I know the value of this may be low as emails can be deleted

Are policyholders now expected to suffer the consequences of a "cancellation" of a policy for which, it seems, no Certificate of Insurance was provided, no attempt to take payment was made and not much else in the way of "renewal" seems to have occurred other than the expiry date had passed?

tifo

this seems to be a matter of a policy not being renewed either by the insurer (no payment requested) or the policyholder so there was no policy to cancel.