First Time Buyer!! YES or NO?

Grumpy_chap

Nickfirsttimebuyer said:

Properties includes 2 residential flats & 1 house. We have also 1 garage & 1 allotment but I believe I need to exclude these 2. So below I show you my percentages & their costs in the residential properties:

For some reason, I read that these properties are all one title and not divisible and separately disposable.  That may be a wholly incorrect reading but, if my reading were correct, it would counter the basis that @SDLT_Geek has assessed the 3% surcharge may not apply.  Can the OP clarify whether the properties are all one complex or entirely unconnected?

SDLT_Geek

Grumpy_chap said:

Nickfirsttimebuyer said:

Properties includes 2 residential flats & 1 house. We have also 1 garage & 1 allotment but I believe I need to exclude these 2. So below I show you my percentages & their costs in the residential properties:

For some reason, I read that these properties are all one title and not divisible and separately disposable.  That may be a wholly incorrect reading but, if my reading were correct, it would counter the basis that @SDLT_Geek has assessed the 3% surcharge may not apply.  Can the OP clarify whether the properties are all one complex or entirely unconnected?

For the SDLT 3% surcharge, we take the £40,000 test dwelling by dwelling.  That is the case even if they are in the same title.  But the flats / houses would need to suitable for use as individual dwellings in order to be looked at separately.

Grumpy_chap

SDLT_Geek said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Nickfirsttimebuyer said:

Properties includes 2 residential flats & 1 house. We have also 1 garage & 1 allotment but I believe I need to exclude these 2. So below I show you my percentages & their costs in the residential properties:

For some reason, I read that these properties are all one title and not divisible and separately disposable.  That may be a wholly incorrect reading but, if my reading were correct, it would counter the basis that @SDLT_Geek has assessed the 3% surcharge may not apply.  Can the OP clarify whether the properties are all one complex or entirely unconnected?

For the SDLT 3% surcharge, we take the £40,000 test dwelling by dwelling.  That is the case even if they are in the same title.  But the flats / houses would need to suitable for use as individual dwellings in order to be looked at separately.

Thank you

Nickfirsttimebuyer

@SDLT_Geek thank you very much!

If each of the three Greek properties are (individually) now worth (looking in each case at the full market value of the 100% interest) under £80,000 then there is no issue with the 3% surcharge!

I have the 2024 Greek tax formal certificate sent to the Greek authorities that shows the percentages I own across all assets as well as their current value. I believe this is more than enough to provide to my solicitor & prove that none of the share of assets (either properties or land) I own, individually exceed £40K current valuation which will put me in the cheaper SDLT category. Please let me know if that is enough

SDLT_Geek

Nickfirsttimebuyer said:

@SDLT_Geek thank you very much!

If each of the three Greek properties are (individually) now worth (looking in each case at the full market value of the 100% interest) under £80,000 then there is no issue with the 3% surcharge!

I have the 2024 Greek tax formal certificate sent to the Greek authorities that shows the percentages I own across all assets as well as their current value. I believe this is more than enough to provide to my solicitor & prove that none of the share of assets (either properties or land) I own, individually exceed £40K current valuation which will put me in the cheaper SDLT category. Please let me know if that is enough

The issue here is establishing the current "market value" of each of the three properties.  The figures you extracted earlier referred to "costs".  Depending on the country and tax system, the figures recorded for tax purposes might not match up with market value.

As to how much information the solicitors want, that is up to them.  To save yourself from unnecessary costs and difficulties, I suggest you find out as much as you can, so you present them with a clear picture.

As mentioned before, the cheapest category of SDLT, first time buyers' relief, seems unavailable to you, given that it seems you have an outright share in some of the properties (as well as having a bare ownership behind a usufruct).  So it is all about whether you are liable for the 3% surcharge.

It might be sensible to post up here estimates of the market values of the three properties so we can give you more input.

Nickfirsttimebuyer

@SDLT_Geek the clear picture is that I hold share of assets in Greece that NONE of them INDIVIDUALLY exceed current value of £40,000. I believe in that case that I am NOT considered a First Time Buyer BUT I do not pay the 3% surcharge either. So my SDLT to HMRC would be £3,105 for a purchase of £312,100 flat.
My solicitors now though become difficult in giving me a clear advice on this matter saying that they are NOT tax advisors/ specialists? I received an answer today from her saying the below:

Did you manage to speak to a tax specialist/investigate further? Our understanding is that as none of your shares in the properties in Greece exceed the sum of £40,000, that these would not be included for stamp duty purposes, which would then deem you as a first-time buyer. I would like to reiterate that we are not specialists in tax so you should speak with a tax advisor to confirm. I think your calculation of £3,105 is based on a ‘normal’ rate of stamp duty (i.e., this applies to anyone who is not a first-time buyer, but is purchasing their next home. In essence, they are replacing their main residence). As you are not replacing your main residence, as you are not selling a property, this rate wouldn’t apply. I have copied the government stamp duty website below:

 https://www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-tax/residential-property-rates

 If a stamp duty is payable, because it transpires you fall into the ‘additional 3% rate’, we would request the stamp duty sum from you before completion. We would then make payment and submit the form to HMRC after completion. If no stamp duty is payable as you are deemed as a first-time buyer, then no payment will need to be made of course, but we still submit a form to HMRC for you after completion.

Since my solicitor is the one who will be submitting my SDLT form are they not the ones need to advise my so they can submit complete and accurate information?

Thank you!!!

user1977

Nickfirsttimebuyer said:

Did you manage to speak to a tax specialist/investigate further? Our understanding is that as none of your shares in the properties in Greece exceed the sum of £40,000, that these would not be included for stamp duty purposes, which would then deem you as a first-time buyer. I would like to reiterate that we are not specialists in tax so you should speak with a tax advisor to confirm

Since my solicitor is the one who will be submitting my SDLT form are they not the ones need to advise my so they can submit complete and accurate information?

As they say, they are not specialists in tax, and not all conveyancing firms will have people qualified for more technical queries such as this - so it's reasonable for them to point that out and suggest you get advice elsewhere on this point.