Should a newly boarded and plastered wall be level?

jonnydeppiwish!

Section62 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

stuart45 said:

That's the problem when you work on old houses, especially if you are used to working on new builds. Using levels doesn't always work, as the old saying is ' if it looks right it's right'. For example putting up a level shelf will look out of level if the ceiling line is out. 
Looking at the photo again, it looks like they've leant the wall out a bit that way, so it could be the floor is well out.

This refinished wall should be plumb. End of.

If there was good reason to not do so, the explanation and alternatives should have been run past the customer first. 

There's probably only two scenarios in which a wall is perfectly plumb (even with a newbuild).

One is someone (probably a DIYer) has spent an inordinate amount of time getting it exactly right.  The second is by pure fluke.

In all the other cases there will be a degree of departure from perfectly plumb.  The question is whether the degree is acceptable in each specific case.

Until is it established that the fridge/freezer is level I'd hold off commenting on the wall.

I did ask in the first reply but, as expected, no response to that question!

jonnydeppiwish!

I’m also wondering about the possibility of this being a chimney that is angled through to the stack.

littlemiss19

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for your comments - really helpful.

We have managed to get our hands on a level and the floor and the fridge are level. We took the level from the top of the new wall and drew a straight line to the bottom and then measured the difference and it is 45mm. 

So, it should be straight or at least a lot straighter.  I get that as its an older house it might not be exact. 

We do have our regular plaster coming at the end of April to do our son's bedroom. He's willing to look at quoting for it and doing it at the same time as our son's room. 

So, my question is - should they redo it at their own cost or do we ask them for a discount to cover someone else doing it? Currently, we have estimates and are awaiting the final invoice. We've paid around 66% of these estimates.

Thanks so much for your help,

Littlemiss  

FreeBear

littlemiss19 said: So, my question is - should they redo it at their own cost or do we ask them for a discount to cover someone else doing it?

I'd raise the issue with the builder and say "45mm out of plumb really isn't acceptable. I would rather have a trusted plasterer sort the issue. But I want your final invoice reduced to reflect the additional cost that I will incur". They may well make a counter offer to come back and do it again properly, or they may agree to a reduction on the final invoice.

ThisIsWeird

littlemiss19 said:

Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for your comments - really helpful.
We have managed to get our hands on a level and the floor and the fridge are level. We took the level from the top of the new wall and drew a straight line to the bottom and then measured the difference and it is 45mm.
So, it should be straight or at least a lot straighter.  I get that as its an older house it might not be exact.
We do have our regular plaster coming at the end of April to do our son's bedroom. He's willing to look at quoting for it and doing it at the same time as our son's room.
So, my question is - should they redo it at their own cost or do we ask them for a discount to cover someone else doing it? Currently, we have estimates and are awaiting the final invoice. We've paid around 66% of these estimates.
Thanks so much for your help,
Littlemiss 

I suspect they'll initially argue that they have done precisely what was asked of them - they removed the old panelling, and made the corner good with p'board and a plaster skim.

'Technically' they may be 'correct', but I cannot see any impartial adjudicator agreeing that leaving a wall sloping by 45mm would be considered acceptable by the average reasonable person; it is not the outcome that they would expect from this job.

So, they might be insistent, or even threaten to sue you for the full cost, but they'd have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. They are the 'pros', and you are a layman. What would the average layman expect from this job? There's your answer.

Or, to put it another way, would the average layperson in this situation be expected to ask, "Could you remove the old panelling, and make it good with a smooth plaster finish, please? Oh, and could I have the vertical, plumb option for the finish, too...?"

It would, tho', be the correct procedure to allow them the opportunity to put it right. So I would allow them that option, and add that they can, if they prefer, simply discount from their bill the cost of another plasterer putting this right. For this, you'd need a separate price for this bit from the new fellow first. They may prefer that option rather than coming back with all their gear for just one part-wall. But if they say, "Sorry - of course we'll sort it", then obviously allow this, with a 'thanks'.

Show them the photo, tell them you've confirmed that the floor and fridge are level, and that the plastered corner is 'out' by 45mm, leaving that visually-unacceptable tapering gap. If they argue, look surprised, and ask if that is how they typically leave their newly plastered walls? For any answer other than, 'nope', then suggest you garner more independent opinions by posting this on your Facebook page, on which you have fivehundredandtwentythree followers in the 'hood. Promise you'll come back with the results of your Poll.

It is unacceptable. It should have been automatic for them to have put this right - they applied p'board for pity's' sakes, so peasy. The only other acceptable alternative to automatically straightening this wall at the time of the job is to have asked you first whether this is what you wanted, "See the slope? Would you like us to straighten that at the same time? No added cost..."

A 45mm variation is not even close to be acceptable.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

littlemiss19 said:

So, it should be straight or at least a lot straighter.  I get that as its an older house it might not be exact. 

The tolerance for new builds would be a fair bit less than 45mm AFAIK.

We live in an old house, nothing is true, square or plumb but if I as an amateur was boxing out a section of wall with plasterboard a per your set up pictured it wouldn't be 45mm out so I think it's fair to expect someone being paid to do better IMHO.

I'd ask them why the wall is out compared to the fridge and see what kind of a response you get.

With the fridge next to it to highlight the angle that would bug the hell out of me every time I walked past it. 

littlemiss19

Hi everyone, Thanks so much for your support and advice. We now have a much straigher wall and at no extra cost. 

Hooray!

Littlemiss

GDB2222

littlemiss19 said:

Hi everyone, Thanks so much for your support and advice. We now have a much straigher wall and at no extra cost. 

Hooray!

Littlemiss

It sounds like you have a decent builder. Hang on to him if you can!