14 days cooling off electric rewire

blackstar

The company replied.

The problem we have is, we purchased the materials to do the job and scheduled workers to complete the work on Monday 15th April.

 

You signed a contract with us and paid a deposit to complete the work.  We then bought the materials and scheduled a date to complete the job.

Th contract states the customer waivers their 14-day cooling-off period if the work needs done within the 14 day period, as you requested.

We are aiming to finish the work on Tuesday 16th April.  The best we can do is rearrange the work to another time, but unfortunately cancelling the work is not an option, as we are spent the deposit on materials to do the work. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

blackstar said:

Thanks for this.

So as per terms and conditions that I signed they may hold me responsible for any costs they may have incurred from me cancelling?

So if they come back and say we incurred x amount of costs and will only refund you x amount what would I have to do then? 
Take them to court and try and get the rest back? Would they need to prove in court how they incurred these costs? 

Consumer rights said below


The Consumer Contract (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 state that If I so wish I can cancel the order within 14 days of it having been placed. 

If the contract that you accepted and agreed to at the point of sale confirms that you may be liable for any costs that may be incurred by the trader due to the consumer cancelling the contract then you would be bound by these terms and condition's. 

Hello OP, I think their understanding is flawed and would send them the below, should you decide you reclaim your deposit via small claims I would suggest professional advice in case mine is incorrect.

OP please check for typos.

We usually deal with E&W I think the legislation is the same for Scotland, not sure if you have a different name for "small claims", other posters will hopefully correct anything I've got wrong  

Dear Electrician Company

Thank you for your reply, with regards to our contract, this is a mixed contract for the supply of goods (materials) and services (the electrical work).

As our contract was concluded at a distance the normal the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical possession of (a) the consumer, or (b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

As I am still within this window I am entitled to cancel the contract for the materials without charge. 

With regards to the service, your terms mention waiving the cooling off period however the legislation doesn't permit you to contract out my right of cancellation in this manner.

Where a service begins within the cooling off period by the consumer's agreement the consumer is only obligated to pay an amount which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

The benefit which I would have received under the contract is the electrical work, it is a given that you have staff to undertake this work and your arrangement with them is not of concern with regards to the benefit I would receive.

To clarify an amount due is not for your costs but for the benefit I have received under the contract, of which there currently is none as work has not begun. 

As noted, I am cancelling the contract under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and request a full refund of my deposit please.

I would hope to be able to resolve this matter amicably but if we are unable to do so I shall I have to seek to recover my deposit via the small claims process. 

Thank you in advance for your prompt attention to this matter,
Sincerely,
blackstar

born_again

blackstar said:

We are in Scotland and we entered into the contract from phone/email. Nothing was in person. 

So how have they managed a quote for a rewire if they have never seen the property?

Alderbank

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

blackstar said:

Thanks for this.

So as per terms and conditions that I signed they may hold me responsible for any costs they may have incurred from me cancelling?

So if they come back and say we incurred x amount of costs and will only refund you x amount what would I have to do then? 
Take them to court and try and get the rest back? Would they need to prove in court how they incurred these costs? 

Consumer rights said below


The Consumer Contract (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 state that If I so wish I can cancel the order within 14 days of it having been placed. 

If the contract that you accepted and agreed to at the point of sale confirms that you may be liable for any costs that may be incurred by the trader due to the consumer cancelling the contract then you would be bound by these terms and condition's. 

We usually deal with E&W I think the legislation is the same for Scotland, not sure if you have a different name for "small claims", other posters will hopefully correct anything I've got wrong  

As noted, I am cancelling the contract under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and request a full refund of my deposit please.

I would hope to be able to resolve this matter amicably but if we are unable to do so I shall I have to seek to recover my deposit via the small claims process. 

Thank you in advance for your prompt attention to this matter,
Sincerely,
blackstar

The legislation, The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, is the same across the UK.

Here in Scotland we revised the small claims process in 2016 and replaced it with a simplified version for claims under £5,000 called the Simple Procedure. Claims for £5,000 and above are heard under the Ordinary Cause procedure.
A full electrical rewire could be more or less than £5,000. However both kinds of procedure are heard in the Sheriff Court, so I suggest wording such as ...if we are unable to do so I shall I have to seek to recover my deposit via the Sheriff Court. 

Everything else looks fine to me and I am sure it will be very useful to the OP.

Kim_13

The legislation linked to refers to the 14 day penalty free period being lost if the consumer makes an express request for the work to start within that period. Presumably the date was something you agreed to, rather than requesting (I’m assuming the trader may make a habit of scheduling work in this way, if the majority don’t suspect that their terms may be unlawful and would then be bound to continue with the contract or pay for most of it anyway.) 

Though you haven’t given the reason here (and that’s fair enough, as it isn’t relevant to the question) I would consider making it known to the trader, as it might help stop you having to go down the legal route. They probably don’t have a lot of sympathy for people randomly changing their mind within a short period; they can’t re-sell the materials as easily as if you’d just returned an item to a shop, and as a trader they may well be stuck with anything they have bought with a resulting impact on cash flow. 

I absolutely don’t believe that they’ve spent the deposit on materials, as well over 50% of the cost must be labour. They should be able to return most of it without any difficulty at all. If they were going to be paying people to be doing nothing the week after next, they wouldn’t be saying that they could move the work to another date (as they’d then be paying staff twice and getting no more for the job.)

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Kim_13 said:

The legislation linked to refers to the 14 day penalty free period being lost if the consumer makes an express request for the work to start within that period. 

It's covered here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/36

Rather than quote the whole lot  

If the service is fully performed within the cancellation period then yes that's it, job done, no right of cancellation.

If the service is partly performed then the consumer has to pay for what they receive up to the point they cancel. 

That requires the consumer to make an expressed request and if off-premises (which OP isn't) that expressed request needs to be in a durable medium and the trader needs to have supplied the correct info on the right to cancel. 

The company seems to think arranging staff and materials means the right to cancel is lost.

What the trader should have done is come to the house, write up a quote and tell the customer to have a think and message later on to say yes or no, that way it would be on-premises with no right to cancel.

Of course that doesn't tie the customer to a contract straightaway but it does mean they don't have the concerns they currently do about staff and materials. 

I know the regs are sometimes seen as too far in the consumer's favour but with tradespeople there is a clear choice, tie the consumer to the contract but they have certain rights to cancel or don't tie the consumer, risk losing them but should they later agree they are tied to the contract end of story and liable for costs or loss of profits if they back out. 

Thanks @Alderbank  

Jumblebumble

RefluentBeans said:

They can keep money for products that have ordered specifically for your project. There’s a lot of variables that can affect this, but if you live in a relatively normally sized house; I wouldn’t worry. If they’ve ordered copper wiring, and a standard RCD box then they can be reused (and they probably have stock of these anyway). The only difference will be if your project is large and requires more unique materials - like a lager than standard RCD box/multiple boxes/a lot of cable. 

In any case they can keep only the cost of these materials, and not the labour hours that it would have cost, and not the profit they’d have made. 

I appreciate it’s nerve wracking when you cancel a big project but I’d just wait and see what they come back with (as they haven’t yet said they’re keeping anything) - and take it from there. If they’re a legitimate business with experience (which those terms makes me think they probably are) then they’ll likely have dealt with similar before and know the rules. 

If they keep the cost of the materials do they also have to hand them over to the OP?
As an aside I knew an architect who booked an electrician for a client and the electrician arrived on the first day but the client wanted to cancel
The electrician arrived and was told the job was off
He insisted that he be paid for the whole job
Fine said the architect here is a chair, take a seat and stay there until the quoted job time is over
They came to some mutually acceptable accommodation.
Perhaps the OP should consider  the same tack

user1977

Jumblebumble said:

RefluentBeans said:

They can keep money for products that have ordered specifically for your project. There’s a lot of variables that can affect this, but if you live in a relatively normally sized house; I wouldn’t worry. If they’ve ordered copper wiring, and a standard RCD box then they can be reused (and they probably have stock of these anyway). The only difference will be if your project is large and requires more unique materials - like a lager than standard RCD box/multiple boxes/a lot of cable. 

In any case they can keep only the cost of these materials, and not the labour hours that it would have cost, and not the profit they’d have made. 

I appreciate it’s nerve wracking when you cancel a big project but I’d just wait and see what they come back with (as they haven’t yet said they’re keeping anything) - and take it from there. If they’re a legitimate business with experience (which those terms makes me think they probably are) then they’ll likely have dealt with similar before and know the rules. 

If they keep the cost of the materials do they also have to hand them over to the OP?

I would expect so, yes. 

And as already said, I would doubt there ought to be any such expense unless there's some unusual kit involved (and it isn't refundable by the suppliers).

blackstar

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

blackstar said:

Thanks for this.

So as per terms and conditions that I signed they may hold me responsible for any costs they may have incurred from me cancelling?

So if they come back and say we incurred x amount of costs and will only refund you x amount what would I have to do then? 
Take them to court and try and get the rest back? Would they need to prove in court how they incurred these costs? 

Consumer rights said below


The Consumer Contract (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 state that If I so wish I can cancel the order within 14 days of it having been placed. 

If the contract that you accepted and agreed to at the point of sale confirms that you may be liable for any costs that may be incurred by the trader due to the consumer cancelling the contract then you would be bound by these terms and condition's. 

Hello OP, I think their understanding is flawed and would send them the below, should you decide you reclaim your deposit via small claims I would suggest professional advice in case mine is incorrect.

OP please check for typos.

We usually deal with E&W I think the legislation is the same for Scotland, not sure if you have a different name for "small claims", other posters will hopefully correct anything I've got wrong  

Dear Electrician Company

Thank you for your reply, with regards to our contract, this is a mixed contract for the supply of goods (materials) and services (the electrical work).

As our contract was concluded at a distance the normal the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical possession of (a) the consumer, or (b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

As I am still within this window I am entitled to cancel the contract for the materials without charge. 

With regards to the service, your terms mention waiving the cooling off period however the legislation doesn't permit you to contract out my right of cancellation in this manner.

Where a service begins within the cooling off period by the consumer's agreement the consumer is only obligated to pay an amount which is in proportion to what has been supplied, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract.

The benefit which I would have received under the contract is the electrical work, it is a given that you have staff to undertake this work and your arrangement with them is not of concern with regards to the benefit I would receive.

To clarify an amount due is not for your costs but for the benefit I have received under the contract, of which there currently is none as work has not begun. 

As noted, I am cancelling the contract under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and request a full refund of my deposit please.

I would hope to be able to resolve this matter amicably but if we are unable to do so I shall I have to seek to recover my deposit via the small claims process. 

Thank you in advance for your prompt attention to this matter,
Sincerely,
blackstar

Wow thank you everyone for the incredible help. Can not thank you enough. And that template letter, wow. Amazing!!!! Thank you all!!

macman

born_again said:

blackstar said:

We are in Scotland and we entered into the contract from phone/email. Nothing was in person. 

So how have they managed a quote for a rewire if they have never seen the property?

I'm assuming that they visited to do a site survey, but the quote was submitted remotely and accepted remotely. So the contract was not made face to face?