Fence boundary question

Nowherefast

Hi All I am trying to determine who owns which side of the Fence. 
According to My Title Deeds I have to maintain the South an West Fences (in Orange Colour)
Which would mean left Side Fence and the fence along the back of the garden.
The right hand side fence (Blue in colour) in question which starts from the public path front all the way to the rear which is the boundary line for my property there is a walkway which leads to a business. The Business owns the walkway and land where the business is.
I have looked at the business deeds/Plans but does not specify anything on maintaining and fences etc
I understand on newer title plans there is a "T" mark to say who maintains the fence but both title plans does not show this mark . I guess as these are older plans.
I have attached a pic I have drawn to show .

Anyone have this issue before and how can I find this information out? 

p00hsticks

Nowherefast said:

I understand on newer title plans there is a "T" mark to say who maintains the fence 

As I understand it, the 'T' actually indicates who is responsible for the *boundary*, which (unless there are covenants to the contrary) is not necessarily the same thing. As long as the boundary line is marked there is no need for a fence / hedge etc - it can be something a simple as a piece of string between two sticks. 

If someone *did* just use a piece of string between two sticks and the neighbour didn't like it, then there is nothing to stop them erecting a fence of their own just their side of the boundary line. 

So you might be better asking your neighbours who erected the fences in question. If you bought your property, the there's also a question on (from recollection) the TA6 form that the seller fills in to ask which boundaries they are responsible for, so it might be worth looking for your paperwork (if you are the owner) or asking your landlord (if a tenant). 

Nowherefast

p00hsticks said:

Nowherefast said:

I understand on newer title plans there is a "T" mark to say who maintains the fence 

As I understand it, the 'T' actually indicates who is responsible for the *boundary*, which (unless there are covenants to the contrary) is not necessarily the same thing. As long as the boundary line is marked there is no need for a fence / hedge etc - it can be something a simple as a piece of string between two sticks. 

If someone *did* just use a piece of string between two sticks and the neighbour didn't like it, then there is nothing to stop them erecting a fence of their own just their side of the boundary line. 

So you might be better asking your neighbours who erected the fences in question. If you bought your property, the there's also a question on (from recollection) the TA6 form that the seller fills in to ask which boundaries they are responsible for, so it might be worth looking for your paperwork (if you are the owner) or asking your landlord (if a tenant). 

Hi thanks for you Reply I have taken a look at the Property information form which I think is the TA6 form but does not mention anything on the paperwork suggesting it is.
The Paperwork on first page does have a heading saying Boundaries and that does say the Right Boundary is Shared . But this is what the Seller knows at the best of their Knowledge. 

macman

Are you sure that the deeds actually state a requirement to maintain the fence? Normally, unless there is an additional covenant, there is no requirement to supply or maintain any fence. The T simply indicates the ownership of the fence and the boundary line. It doesn't have to physically exist.

Nowherefast

macman said:

Are you sure that the deeds actually state a requirement to maintain the fence? Normally, unless there is an additional covenant, there is no requirement to supply or maintain any fence. The T simply indicates the ownership of the fence and the boundary line. It doesn't have to physically exist.

Hi So under the heading of my Title Register mentions. 

Schedule of Restrictive Covenants

On being requested so to do by the Vendor and in any event prior

to commencing building operations upon the land the Purchaser would

erect and forever thereinafter maintain good and sufficient fences on

and along the south and west sides

of the land thereby conveyed to the

reasonable satisfaction of the Vendor or his agent so as to fence off

the land thereby conveyed from the adjoining premises

sheramber

That is your  requirement. 

What do the deeds of the owner of the walkway state?

Nowherefast

sheramber said:

That is your  requirement. 

What do the deeds of the owner of the walkway state?

The Walkway which leads to the business is together in the title plan /deeds 
But does not mention anything in there reference the Fence. 

Albermarle

As the fence by the walkway appears necessary for your own privacy and security, I think you will be forced to maintain it, especially as it is not clear whose responsibility it is .

sheramber

Does the does the fence on the walkway side match the other two sides, indicating it was erected at the same time and probably by the same person.

You could always ask the company what they understand about the maintenance of the fence. I expect they have no interest in the fence as long as the walkway is not obstructed.

eddddy

Nowherefast said:

macman said:

Are you sure that the deeds actually state a requirement to maintain the fence? Normally, unless there is an additional covenant, there is no requirement to supply or maintain any fence. The T simply indicates the ownership of the fence and the boundary line. It doesn't have to physically exist.

Hi So under the heading of my Title Register mentions. 

Schedule of Restrictive Covenants

On being requested so to do by the Vendor and in any event prior

to commencing building operations upon the land the Purchaser would

erect and forever thereinafter maintain good and sufficient fences on

and along the south and west sides

of the land thereby conveyed to the

reasonable satisfaction of the Vendor or his agent so as to fence off

the land thereby conveyed from the adjoining premises

FWIW, the requirement to maintain the fence would be a positive covenant. Positive covenants don't generally run with the land.

So once the property passes to a new owner, the covenant is not generally enforceable (unless the new owner signs a deed of covenant).



More generally, there's usually no legal obligation to maintain fences.

If the 'blue' fence is just inside the business's boundary, they probably own it. So you are not allowed to damage or remove or interfere with their fence.

But the business would be allowed to let their own fence fall into disrepair, or damage it, or remove it - if they want.