Squatters using utilities

BreakfastTea18

lincroft1710 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

Devongardener said:

You need to consider whether your brother has entered into any sort of tenancy arrangement with these people, formal or not.  If he has you might be on uncertain ground if you cut off the electricity supply.   Do you know for sure that they are not paying rent to your brother? Are they living there or just running a business?

He hasn't, it wasn't his to give as he doesn't nor ever has owned the land in question. There was an informal agreement that my late mum had, now ceased upon her death. 
Title is 100% in favour of my mother, in fact it still has my late Father on the deeds too. Adverse possession is not in the equation as permission was always given. 

Devongardener said:

You need to consider whether your brother has entered into any sort of tenancy arrangement with these people, formal or not.  If he has you might be on uncertain ground if you cut off the electricity supply.   Do you know for sure that they are not paying rent to your brother? Are they living there or just running a business?

Land didn't come to the attention of Business Rates until a fortnight ago. There may well be a large backdated amount to pay.

 Unfortunately much went on under the radar of relevant authorities, and still does. 

The furthest any rating assessment can be backdated is 1 April 2023 as that is when the current Non Domestic Valuation List came into force. If the Rateable Value is £12,000 or less and it is the sole premises of that business then there is 100% rates relief

Thank you, I don't know anything at all about business rates other than the land currently isn't rated. One other complication is that the business currently occupying the land is also subletting, without permission, to another business for cash. The more I dig into this situation the more complex it becomes. 

pjs493

I'm not a solicitor or an expert in this area by any means, but have you considered having the locks changed while the people living there are away from the property? It might be worth asking your solicitor if this would be a good approach, that way you can secure the property with the argument that you are trying to preserve it so it doesn't get trashed or misused further. If they then break into the property to gain access it might then be considered criminal action. Again, I'm not an expert but just thought I'd make the suggestion in case you've not explored this option with your solicitor.

BreakfastTea18

pjs493 said:

I'm not a solicitor or an expert in this area by any means, but have you considered having the locks changed while the people living there are away from the property? It might be worth asking your solicitor if this would be a good approach, that way you can secure the property with the argument that you are trying to preserve it so it doesn't get trashed or misused further. If they then break into the property to gain access it might then be considered criminal action. Again, I'm not an expert but just thought I'd make the suggestion in case you've not explored this option with your solicitor.

That's definitely something I've considered, but to be fair to my brother, although God knows why as he is being anything but, I've not done so as I'd be angry if he did so.  As we are both potentially joint administrators I don't believe either of us has the power to do this exclusive of the other. 

Our perspectives are different, as you note, that I'm trying to preserve the assets whilst he is hell bent on depleting them. 

Solicitor is looking at trying to remove him from applying for LoA due to his behaviour and abetting the behaviour of others in using the property and its utilities. 

pjs493

Kimlisa1 said:

pjs493 said:

I'm not a solicitor or an expert in this area by any means, but have you considered having the locks changed while the people living there are away from the property? It might be worth asking your solicitor if this would be a good approach, that way you can secure the property with the argument that you are trying to preserve it so it doesn't get trashed or misused further. If they then break into the property to gain access it might then be considered criminal action. Again, I'm not an expert but just thought I'd make the suggestion in case you've not explored this option with your solicitor.

That's definitely something I've considered, but to be fair to my brother, although God knows why as he is being anything but, I've not done so as I'd be angry if he did so.  As we are both potentially joint administrators I don't believe either of us has the power to do this exclusive of the other. 

Our perspectives are different, as you note, that I'm trying to preserve the assets whilst he is hell bent on depleting them. 

Solicitor is looking at trying to remove him from applying for LoA due to his behaviour and abetting the behaviour of others in using the property and its utilities. 

It might be worth talking changing the locks through with your solicitor as a relatively cheap solution to some of the ongoing issues. 

While you wouldn't be happy if your brother changed the locks, the point is that he is deliberately trying to deplete the value of assets and you are trying to preserve them. If he was to challenge or raise issues with you changing the locks, you can explain (or have your solicitor explain for you if that's how you're now communicating) that it is in the best interests of both of you to preserve the estate while disagreements are ongoing.

BreakfastTea18

pjs493 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

pjs493 said:

I'm not a solicitor or an expert in this area by any means, but have you considered having the locks changed while the people living there are away from the property? It might be worth asking your solicitor if this would be a good approach, that way you can secure the property with the argument that you are trying to preserve it so it doesn't get trashed or misused further. If they then break into the property to gain access it might then be considered criminal action. Again, I'm not an expert but just thought I'd make the suggestion in case you've not explored this option with your solicitor.

That's definitely something I've considered, but to be fair to my brother, although God knows why as he is being anything but, I've not done so as I'd be angry if he did so.  As we are both potentially joint administrators I don't believe either of us has the power to do this exclusive of the other. 

Our perspectives are different, as you note, that I'm trying to preserve the assets whilst he is hell bent on depleting them. 

Solicitor is looking at trying to remove him from applying for LoA due to his behaviour and abetting the behaviour of others in using the property and its utilities. 

It might be worth talking changing the locks through with your solicitor as a relatively cheap solution to some of the ongoing issues. 

While you wouldn't be happy if your brother changed the locks, the point is that he is deliberately trying to deplete the value of assets and you are trying to preserve them. If he was to challenge or raise issues with you changing the locks, you can explain (or have your solicitor explain for you if that's how you're now communicating) that it is in the best interests of both of you to preserve the estate while disagreements are ongoing.

That's a really sensible suggestion, my only worry and it's a definite likelihood is that he or his sons will just break in anyway.  They have told me that they will block any attempt to be removed from either the property or the land and will break in if the property is boarded up. Removing the electricity supply is actually going to be more effective and something they can't control. 

 I'm dealing with lawless, aggressive hillbillies for whom the law holds no fear.

lincroft1710

Kimlisa1 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

Devongardener said:

You need to consider whether your brother has entered into any sort of tenancy arrangement with these people, formal or not.  If he has you might be on uncertain ground if you cut off the electricity supply.   Do you know for sure that they are not paying rent to your brother? Are they living there or just running a business?

He hasn't, it wasn't his to give as he doesn't nor ever has owned the land in question. There was an informal agreement that my late mum had, now ceased upon her death. 
Title is 100% in favour of my mother, in fact it still has my late Father on the deeds too. Adverse possession is not in the equation as permission was always given. 

Devongardener said:

You need to consider whether your brother has entered into any sort of tenancy arrangement with these people, formal or not.  If he has you might be on uncertain ground if you cut off the electricity supply.   Do you know for sure that they are not paying rent to your brother? Are they living there or just running a business?

Land didn't come to the attention of Business Rates until a fortnight ago. There may well be a large backdated amount to pay.

 Unfortunately much went on under the radar of relevant authorities, and still does. 

The furthest any rating assessment can be backdated is 1 April 2023 as that is when the current Non Domestic Valuation List came into force. If the Rateable Value is £12,000 or less and it is the sole premises of that business then there is 100% rates relief

Thank you, I don't know anything at all about business rates other than the land currently isn't rated. One other complication is that the business currently occupying the land is also subletting, without permission, to another business for cash. The more I dig into this situation the more complex it becomes. 

Well there could be 2 rating assessments then, one for each occupation.

BreakfastTea18

lincroft1710 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

lincroft1710 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

Devongardener said:

You need to consider whether your brother has entered into any sort of tenancy arrangement with these people, formal or not.  If he has you might be on uncertain ground if you cut off the electricity supply.   Do you know for sure that they are not paying rent to your brother? Are they living there or just running a business?

He hasn't, it wasn't his to give as he doesn't nor ever has owned the land in question. There was an informal agreement that my late mum had, now ceased upon her death. 
Title is 100% in favour of my mother, in fact it still has my late Father on the deeds too. Adverse possession is not in the equation as permission was always given. 

Devongardener said:

You need to consider whether your brother has entered into any sort of tenancy arrangement with these people, formal or not.  If he has you might be on uncertain ground if you cut off the electricity supply.   Do you know for sure that they are not paying rent to your brother? Are they living there or just running a business?

Land didn't come to the attention of Business Rates until a fortnight ago. There may well be a large backdated amount to pay.

 Unfortunately much went on under the radar of relevant authorities, and still does. 

The furthest any rating assessment can be backdated is 1 April 2023 as that is when the current Non Domestic Valuation List came into force. If the Rateable Value is £12,000 or less and it is the sole premises of that business then there is 100% rates relief

Thank you, I don't know anything at all about business rates other than the land currently isn't rated. One other complication is that the business currently occupying the land is also subletting, without permission, to another business for cash. The more I dig into this situation the more complex it becomes. 

Well there could be 2 rating assessments then, one for each occupation.

I didn't consider that, but yes that's feasible

user1977

pjs493 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

pjs493 said:

I'm not a solicitor or an expert in this area by any means, but have you considered having the locks changed while the people living there are away from the property? It might be worth asking your solicitor if this would be a good approach, that way you can secure the property with the argument that you are trying to preserve it so it doesn't get trashed or misused further. If they then break into the property to gain access it might then be considered criminal action. Again, I'm not an expert but just thought I'd make the suggestion in case you've not explored this option with your solicitor.

That's definitely something I've considered, but to be fair to my brother, although God knows why as he is being anything but, I've not done so as I'd be angry if he did so.  As we are both potentially joint administrators I don't believe either of us has the power to do this exclusive of the other. 

Our perspectives are different, as you note, that I'm trying to preserve the assets whilst he is hell bent on depleting them. 

Solicitor is looking at trying to remove him from applying for LoA due to his behaviour and abetting the behaviour of others in using the property and its utilities. 

It might be worth talking changing the locks through with your solicitor as a relatively cheap solution to some of the ongoing issues. 

While you wouldn't be happy if your brother changed the locks, the point is that he is deliberately trying to deplete the value of assets and you are trying to preserve them. If he was to challenge or raise issues with you changing the locks, you can explain (or have your solicitor explain for you if that's how you're now communicating) that it is in the best interests of both of you to preserve the estate while disagreements are ongoing.

So what happens if the brother just changes the locks again? Back to square one but the local locksmiths are laughing...

BreakfastTea18

user1977 said:

pjs493 said:

Kimlisa1 said:

pjs493 said:

I'm not a solicitor or an expert in this area by any means, but have you considered having the locks changed while the people living there are away from the property? It might be worth asking your solicitor if this would be a good approach, that way you can secure the property with the argument that you are trying to preserve it so it doesn't get trashed or misused further. If they then break into the property to gain access it might then be considered criminal action. Again, I'm not an expert but just thought I'd make the suggestion in case you've not explored this option with your solicitor.

That's definitely something I've considered, but to be fair to my brother, although God knows why as he is being anything but, I've not done so as I'd be angry if he did so.  As we are both potentially joint administrators I don't believe either of us has the power to do this exclusive of the other. 

Our perspectives are different, as you note, that I'm trying to preserve the assets whilst he is hell bent on depleting them. 

Solicitor is looking at trying to remove him from applying for LoA due to his behaviour and abetting the behaviour of others in using the property and its utilities. 

It might be worth talking changing the locks through with your solicitor as a relatively cheap solution to some of the ongoing issues. 

While you wouldn't be happy if your brother changed the locks, the point is that he is deliberately trying to deplete the value of assets and you are trying to preserve them. If he was to challenge or raise issues with you changing the locks, you can explain (or have your solicitor explain for you if that's how you're now communicating) that it is in the best interests of both of you to preserve the estate while disagreements are ongoing.

So what happens if the brother just changes the locks again? Back to square one but the local locksmiths are laughing...

Yep, it's futile, that's exactly what he'll do, particularly as I know how petty and obstructive he is.

His position is if he isn't getting everything in the residual estate he'll make sure nobody gets anything.  He's been like this his entire life, over Indulged and enabled to be the worst kind of human.