ESA has dropped from £450per fornight to £259per fortnight and no reason given!!

money08

Hello,

I am long term sick/disabled on UC/ESA/PIP/HB. I changed to UC a couple of years ago voluntarily during covid and it was painless thanks to an excellent advisor at DWP (at the time they put lots more staff on to deal with covid issues)

My ESA has dropped from £450per fornight to £259per fortnight and no reason given!! last month (new tax year benefits changes) I got the usual update letter before April changes which give no clue.

Its impossible to get hold of DWP after hours and hours trying and having to endure the waterboarding technique that is their please wait messaging system blasted out at full volume. No doubt by design of the stasi state we now have who are very happy for us to top ourselves STILL even after the last decade of horror stories. The DWP staff are themselves suffering terribly due to lack of resources etc so its not their fault Im sure.

I cant get hold of DWP and dont want to kick up a fuss in case they just stop the lot again.

Any ideas or opinions as to why? I was in the LCWRA group etc and saw recently theyw ere just going to drop it in 2025...is it this?

Thnx

Muttleythefrog

Check.... £259 per fortnight sounds correct for C Based/New style ESA with LCWRA (2023/4 rates).... are you getting confused with which benefit is which?

(The intention of this government over time is to eliminate the Work Capability Assessment and use PIP as a determinant as to disablement in relation to work. The associated extra payments have not been specified. The timeline is up in the air and with general election looming it is anyone's guess how benefit policy in relation to sick/disabled will actually be changed in coming years)

money08

No I get income related benefits and havent worked in 10yrs due to disability. Nothing has changed here and I was getting the £450 per fortnight for well over a year. UC does deduct some of the ESA variants from UC but not all of it.

Muttleythefrog

money08 said:

No I get income related benefits and havent worked in 10yrs due to disability. Nothing has changed here and I was getting the £450 per fortnight for well over a year. UC does deduct some of the ESA variants from UC but not all of it.

It sounds like.... and just doing the maths here... you were getting Income Related ESA with Support Component and the 2 disability premiums (enhanced & severe).. that would be £450.90 I think per fortnight... is this correct?

So for some reason to me it appears you've been switched from IR ESA to C Based ESA (which you may have underlying entitlement to if you worked in the couple years prior to claiming ESA) or lost disability premiums.

If this is the case someone else is going to have to explain what would trigger such... I thought applying for UC voluntarily would have triggered the switch (to C based ESA if eligible) as it did for me around the same time. Getting income related ESA and UC I would have thought not possible without error.

Otherwise I'm clueless and hopefully someone can explain... if not then call ESA next week. Also monitor your UC statements to see if they correctly reflect the ESA payments (calculated at monthly rate). A fear in my mind is contrary to what you suggest there may have been overpayments here but more information is needed about the switch to UC and all UC/ESA payments since to understand what has happened and if any errors exist.

money08

Yeah something looks wrong which is why I should maybe just take the hit rather than rocking the boat and chasing it up. So maybe its fortunate you can never get hold of anyone at DWP after all in this case. Mind you I do the benefits check websites and they say I should be getting more then I do now, so inline with the £450 per fortnight period.

Alice_Holt

money08 said:

 Nothing has changed here and I was getting the £450 per fortnight for well over a year. UC does deduct some of the ESA variants from UC but not all of it.

       That sounds odd to me, as I would expect all your ESA payments (on a monthly basis) to be deducted from your UC.

    How long have you been receiving UC?    And why did you move to UC?

   You will need to look at both UC and ESA together. 
   
  Can you post (personal details redacted) your UC payment pages pre and post the change to your ESA payments, together with the ESA payments you actually received for those months.

 I'm wondering if something has gone wrong with UC / ESA communications.  When in receipt of UC, I would expect your ESA payments to be only the contribution-based amount. If you have been receiving the income based disability premiums as well (whilst on UC and getting the LCWRA addition), this could be an overpayment.

 A further complication being:
https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-disability-universal-credit/severe-disability-premium#:~:text=If you get, or are,need to apply for it.  

    

money08

(I cant find old statements pre and prior to UC but I think I was about £140pm better off overall. From day one they took off the ESA average. Back then claiming it was £490)

All the annual statements have been up and down like a yoyo, though the actual payments remauined pretty much constant. I moved from Incapacity benefit when that stopped in 2013 ish onto ESA..then when UC came in after it initially settled down the benefits checks online showed I would be better off on UC and so I moved over.

Mid 2020
UC First payment was made up of standard allowance+housing+LCRWA=£1200 give or take a few pennies
then what we take off as an average of what you continue to claim ESA=£492
This left a payment of
TOTAL £710

By June 2021 I was still getting around £1200pm UC but now then they were taking off £495 as an average other benefits.
TOTAL £747 UC

Mid 2023 got a standard UC assesment check (annual or bi yearly whatever it is) and filled in UC50 which eventually came back as no change. I got the conclusion notice Feb 2024 when they said you will continue to get LCWRA/UC etc at the same rate you were getting.
Then the very next UC payment in march was when the money had dropped from £450 to £250per fortnight!!

Dec2023 still in LCWRA group
The rate was £1300pm
but they were now taking off £561 as the average.

Still no change in claim for me but by Feb 2024 UC payment, which was still £1300
they were now taking off £368 as the average of other benefits but my payment was still
TOTAL £750ish (still showing LCWRA support)

and so it goes...I think almost every single statement gives differing figures as to how its made up, yet still the same TOTAL!!


Dec/Jan
Standard allowance was £368
LCWRA was showing as £390
This time the average was shown as £560 they take off.
I still got Total £747

March the same difference but the average total had dropped again to
TOTAL £368

For some reason the UC total here was £940 and was an overpayment so it should have been the usualy £740ish

So technically NOTHING has changed in regards ME and my Claim for benefits but the figures are up and down like a yoyo within the UC statements but the actual total payment I get is constant.
So the change has come from the ESA payment to my bank alone.
This is shown in the bank as BANK GIRO CREDIT REF ******** DWP EESA........

Madness.

UPDATE after this post

OK just looked at my most recent (27/02/24) Jobcentre Plus statement for ESA showing the usual annual rate changes for April. Its added a line which it has never said before.

From Feb 17 2024 ESA £129

Then it adds this unusual line (You are not getting any more income-related employment abd support allowance)

then back to normal lines

from 13 April 2024 it goes up to £138.

A few pages on it then states how esa IS WORKED OUT

Limited capability for work addition=£44

Which gives you a total INCOME-RELATED AMOUNT- £44.70

No income will be taken off your esa bla bla so still £44

but then

"However because you are entitled to contribution-based ESA we will pay you" £129

from Feb 2024

so seems to be yet another issue twixt contribution and incme based esa!!

So the key could be this additional line added by then on the automated clear as mud systems.

Did I read somewhere, aside from them wanting to drop LCWRA in 2025, that there was a time limit on the Income ESA which was just a top up for the first year or something. But as I say nothing has changed here in 10yrs.

money08

Muttleythefrog said:

money08 said:

No I get income related benefits and havent worked in 10yrs due to disability. Nothing has changed here and I was getting the £450 per fortnight for well over a year. UC does deduct some of the ESA variants from UC but not all of it.

It sounds like.... and just doing the maths here... you were getting Income Related ESA with Support Component and the 2 disability premiums (enhanced & severe).. that would be £450.90 I think per fortnight... is this correct?

So for some reason to me it appears you've been switched from IR ESA to C Based ESA (which you may have underlying entitlement to if you worked in the couple years prior to claiming ESA) or lost disability premiums.

If this is the case someone else is going to have to explain what would trigger such... I thought applying for UC voluntarily would have triggered the switch (to C based ESA if eligible) as it did for me around the same time. Getting income related ESA and UC I would have thought not possible without error.

Otherwise I'm clueless and hopefully someone can explain... if not then call ESA next week. Also monitor your UC statements to see if they correctly reflect the ESA payments (calculated at monthly rate). A fear in my mind is contrary to what you suggest there may have been overpayments here but more information is needed about the switch to UC and all UC/ESA payments since to understand what has happened and if any errors exist.

Ah now you mention it I think they did have me in the wrong contributions group and that was sorted midterm and I got more money.

money08

Muttleythefrog said:

Check.... £259 per fortnight sounds correct for C Based/New style ESA with LCWRA (2023/4 rates).... are you getting confused with which benefit is which?

(The intention of this government over time is to eliminate the Work Capability Assessment and use PIP as a determinant as to disablement in relation to work. The associated extra payments have not been specified. The timeline is up in the air and with general election looming it is anyone's guess how benefit policy in relation to sick/disabled will actually be changed in coming years)

There was an error after the changeover from Incapacity to ESA in which I was on contributory but then that was resolved and now I am on income related. Mind you must double check it still applies.

money08

OK just looked at my most recent Jobcentre Plus statement for ESA showing annual rate changes for April. Its added a line which it has never said before.

From Feb 17 2024 ESA £129

Then it adds this unusual line (You are not getting any more income-related employment abd support allowance)

then back to normal lines

from 13 April 2024 it goes up to £138.

A few pages on it then states how esa IS WORKED OUT

Limited capability for work addition=£44

Which gives you a total INCOME-RELATED AMOUNT- £44.70

No income will be taken off your esa bla bla so still £44

but then

"However because you are entitled to contribution-based ESA we will pay you" £129

from Feb 2024

so seems to be yet another issue twixt contribution and incme based esa!!

So the key could be this additional line added by then on the automated clear as mud systems.

Did I read somewhere, aside from them wanting to drop LCWRA in 2025, that there was a time limit on the Income ESA which was just a top up for the first year or something. But as I say nothing has changed here in 10yrs.

 

Alice_Holt

money08 said:

(I cant find old statements pre and prior to UC but I think I was about £140pm better off overall. From day one they took off the ESA average. Back then claiming it was £490)

All the annual statements have been up and down like a yoyo, though the actual payments remauined pretty much constant. I moved from Incapacity benefit when that stopped in 2013 ish onto ESA..then when UC came in after it initially settled down the benefits checks online showed I would be better off on UC and so I moved over.

Mid 2020
UC First payment was made up of standard allowance+housing+LCRWA=£1200 give or take a few pennies
then what we take off as an average of what you continue to claim ESA=£492
This left a payment of
TOTAL £710

By June 2021 I was still getting around £1200pm UC but now then they were taking off £495 as an average other benefits.
TOTAL £747 UC

Mid 2023 got a standard UC assesment check (annual or bi yearly whatever it is) and filled in UC50 which eventually came back as no change. I got the conclusion notice Feb 2024 when they said you will continue to get LCWRA/UC etc at the same rate you were getting.
Then the very next UC payment in march was when the money had dropped from £450 to £250per fortnight!!

Dec2023 still in LCWRA group
The rate was £1300pm
but they were now taking off £561 as the average.

Still no change in claim for me but by Feb 2024 UC payment, which was still £1300
they were now taking off £368 as the average of other benefits but my payment was still
TOTAL £750ish (still showing LCWRA support)

and so it goes...I think almost every single statement gives differing figures as to how its made up, yet still the same TOTAL!!


Dec/Jan
Standard allowance was £368
LCWRA was showing as £390
This time the average was shown as £560 they take off.
I still got Total £747

March the same difference but the average total had dropped again to
TOTAL £368

For some reason the UC total here was £940 and was an overpayment so it should have been the usualy £740ish

So technically NOTHING has changed in regards ME and my Claim for benefits but the figures are up and down like a yoyo within the UC statements but the actual total payment I get is constant.
So the change has come from the ESA payment to my bank alone.
This is shown in the bank as BANK GIRO CREDIT REF ******** DWP EESA........

Madness.

       Yes, it's most confusing.

     I think the crucial thing to check is that the deduction UC make from your UC claim for ESA is exactly the same as you have received from ESA in that month.* 
   If this is correct then your ESA amount dropping shouldn't affect the total of UC and ESA you receive a month, as UC should deduct less for those months.

  If UC are deducting more than you have received in ESA for the month, then you will be out of pocket. If so, then it's UC you need to contact - put a note on your journal and show proof of your ESA payments.  

*  To convert from fortnightly to monthly -  multiply the fortnightly sum by 26 (to get to an annual figure) , then divide by 12.