VOTE now! Proposed take over of Virgin Money - Nationwide members should be given a vote

Middle_of_the_Road

WillPS said:

masonic said:

Whoever's running this petition ought to be careful to ensure they're not misrepresenting a response (or lack of one). Unless Nationwide have responded with "we are going to ignore the petition and deny any attempt to call a SGM [legitimately or illegitimately]" then this could amount to slander.

A smarter leader might recognise they've been unnecessarily heavy handed in their demands, with the effect of overcomplicating the process and have thus missed some more obvious windows through which a kicking could have been delivered. Perhaps they could instead turn their attention to getting a resolution passed to ensure votes will have to take place on takeovers of any sort in future.

Instead of that they're instead advising their tiny numbers move their deposits, as if that might hurt them in any real way at all. Pathetic really.

Most members are not in your mindset. Unfortunatly, and as is the norm, the majority feel they have no ability to change the outcome. You have now fallen into a position that confirms your bravado, mirrored by the powers that be, at the Building society. Your last two words exemplify your position.

WillPS

Middle_of_the_Road said:

WillPS said:

masonic said:

Whoever's running this petition ought to be careful to ensure they're not misrepresenting a response (or lack of one). Unless Nationwide have responded with "we are going to ignore the petition and deny any attempt to call a SGM [legitimately or illegitimately]" then this could amount to slander.

A smarter leader might recognise they've been unnecessarily heavy handed in their demands, with the effect of overcomplicating the process and have thus missed some more obvious windows through which a kicking could have been delivered. Perhaps they could instead turn their attention to getting a resolution passed to ensure votes will have to take place on takeovers of any sort in future.

Instead of that they're instead advising their tiny numbers move their deposits, as if that might hurt them in any real way at all. Pathetic really.

Most members are not in your mindset. Unfortunatly, and as is the norm, the majority feel they have no ability to change the outcome. You have now fallen into a position that confirms your bravado, mirrored by the powers that be, at the Building society. Your last two words exemplify your position.

I'm not sure either of us have an ability to speak for "the majority". You can speak for yourself as have I. My position is that I cannot bare those with an unwarranted sense of self-importance.

FWIW, if we were to take a punt on what "the majority" think, I'd guess it'd be that they couldn't give a toss; we'll have to wait until AGM to see how many members will vote but if it's anything like previous years then the overwhelming majority wont (around <600k votes received last year, vs an eligible membership of around 16m). 

Bridlington1

friolento said:

masonic said:

masonic said:

Any update from Nationwide on progress towards a SGM? Confirmation that there were 500 qualifying members among the signatories? Cheque paid in? Anything?

To answer my own question, now on the petition site...

WOW, that'll teach'em

Well it's nice to see the organisers of this petition agree with me on something. For ages I've been advising people to move most of their savings out of Nationwide and put it where it will earn a better rate of interest.

For the duration of this campaign so far the only savings I've kept with Nationwide is the contents of the NLA 8% Flex RS (more than £100 in it admittedly but I can't imagine they'll be making much (if any) money on the amount they have in there) plus the contents of the Start to Save Issue 2 at 5.5% which I closed on 5th April before moving the funds elsewhere as a matter of principle. It seems I'm inadvertently doing my bit for this cause.

Of course my actions have nothing to do with this petition whatsoever and I've no strong feelings either way on the whole affair (though it's been an interesting debate I must admit), I'm just a rate tart. I just put my money where it will earn me the most interest at the time and have done so for over 2 years. I only closed the Start to Save early because I wanted the interest paid in the 2023-4 tax year and will continue to keep most of my savings elsewhere on the principle that I shall not move my savings to a Nationwide current/saving account if I can get more money by keeping the funds elsewhere.

WillPS

Bridlington1 said:

friolento said:

masonic said:

masonic said:

Any update from Nationwide on progress towards a SGM? Confirmation that there were 500 qualifying members among the signatories? Cheque paid in? Anything?

To answer my own question, now on the petition site...

WOW, that'll teach'em

Well it's nice to see the organisers of this petition agree with me on something. For ages I've been advising people to move most of their savings out of Nationwide and put it where it will earn a better rate of interest.

For the duration of this campaign so far the only savings I've kept with Nationwide is the contents of the NLA 8% Flex RS (more than £100 in it admittedly but I can't imagine they'll be making much (if any) money on the amount they have in there) plus the contents of the Start to Save Issue 2 at 5.5% which I closed on 5th April before moving the funds elsewhere as a matter of principle. It seems I'm inadvertently doing my bit for this cause.

Of course my actions have nothing to do with this petition whatsoever and I've no strong feelings either way on the whole affair (though it's been an interesting debate I must admit), I'm just a rate tart. I just put my money where it will earn me the most interest at the time and have done so for over 2 years. I only closed the Start to Save early because I wanted the interest paid in the 2023-4 tax year and will continue to keep most of my savings elsewhere on the principle that I shall not move my savings to a Nationwide current/saving account if I can get more money by keeping the funds elsewhere.

Perfectly rational advice. I wouldn't advise anybody leave money anywhere they didn't trust those in charge, nor would I advise anybody left money earning less than they could get elsewhere (among organisations they trust). 

I've said all along that if people aren't happy with the way "their society" is being managed, they have levers available to them including walking away; that'd be the single most effective way of preventing the horrors of being a member of a post-merger society (whatever they may be, nobody seems to have an offer on that) from affecting them personally. What they can't do is selectively read the Memorandum and Rules of the society to demand things, ignoring the stipulations associated with those privileges.

eskbanker

masonic said:

masonic said:

Any update from Nationwide on progress towards a SGM? Confirmation that there were 500 qualifying members among the signatories? Cheque paid in? Anything?

To answer my own question, now on the petition site...

It seems odd that there's no actual support (that I could find) for the assertion that "Nationwide is now going to ignore the petition" within the campaign site itself, where it's simply stated yesterday that:

The Society Secretary replied to say he “will respond once I have considered your questions fully” but Nationwide has still not posted notice of a SGM, or explained the delay in doing so.

Obviously those running the petition/campaign will be privy to more information about current status than the rest of us but to me there's a significant difference between "Nationwide has still not posted notice of a SGM" and "Nationwide is now going to ignore the petition", the latter having clear connotations of a deliberate and conscious decision.

The 'withdraw all but £100' exhortation started the day after the petition was delivered, as discussed on here at the time:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80723204/#Comment_80723204

gravel_2

Do you reckon the average member knows what a building society is?

26left

eskbanker said:

masonic said:

masonic said:

Any update from Nationwide on progress towards a SGM? Confirmation that there were 500 qualifying members among the signatories? Cheque paid in? Anything?

To answer my own question, now on the petition site...

It seems odd that there's no actual support (that I could find) for the assertion that "Nationwide is now going to ignore the petition" within the campaign site itself, where it's simply stated yesterday that:

The Society Secretary replied to say he “will respond once I have considered your questions fully” but Nationwide has still not posted notice of a SGM, or explained the delay in doing so.

Obviously those running the petition/campaign will be privy to more information about current status than the rest of us but to me there's a significant difference between "Nationwide has still not posted notice of a SGM" and "Nationwide is now going to ignore the petition", the latter having clear connotations of a deliberate and conscious decision.

The 'withdraw all but £100' exhortation started the day after the petition was delivered, as discussed on here at the time:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80723204/#Comment_80723204

The latest update from the campaign was added to the petition site two days ago
https://www.change.org/p/give-nationwide-members-a-say-on-the-purchase-of-virgin-money/u/32518486

From what I can tell from the above page and the campaign website below (which has filled out quite a bit now - see press articles at the bottom), the recent time line is this:

https://nationwide-virgin-money-member-vote.org.uk/

Thursday 11th campaign delivered petition and SGM request (see press release)

Friday 12th move your money (see press release)

Saturday 13th raise a concern with the FCA

Monday 15th complain to your MP

Tuesday 16th 1,500 signatories - still no formal response from Nationwide re SGM specifics. Repeats request to supporters to take direct action as above. 

That makes today (Thursday 18th) a full calendar week since the petition and request for a SGM (including proposed resolution and £25,000 deposit) were delivered in writing to Nationwide HQ.

Tomorrow (Friday 19th) looks like a key date for the takeover timeline. A high court judge needs to determine whether all VM shareholders vote as a single class or not, given Branson / Virgin Group entities and the rather lucrative licensing deal between VM and Virgin Enterprises (£250m exit fee split into two tranches in the first year, £15m pa thereafter - see takeover docs). 

Branson owns / controls 14.6% of VM, so that’s worth 2.9B x 14.6% =~ £423M. But in effect he / VG will get paid (423 + 250)/400 x £2.20 =~ £3.50 per share, whilst other shareholders just get £2.20 per share. 

Once the court determines tomorrow (A) one class or two and (B) the that scheme of arrangement can proceed, the scheme document can be issued to VM shareholders. I think there must be some amount of consideration time (can see a maximum of 21 days but no minimum), and then VM shareholders vote. 

The resolution needs a 75% majority in favour for the deal to go ahead under a scheme of arrangement. That might be tough if Branson’s shares are in a different class, and other VM shareholders either don’t vote at all, or vote to reject - as some analysts have recommended (ie holding out for a higher price).

masonic

26left said:

eskbanker said:

masonic said:

masonic said:

Any update from Nationwide on progress towards a SGM? Confirmation that there were 500 qualifying members among the signatories? Cheque paid in? Anything?

To answer my own question, now on the petition site...

It seems odd that there's no actual support (that I could find) for the assertion that "Nationwide is now going to ignore the petition" within the campaign site itself, where it's simply stated yesterday that:

The Society Secretary replied to say he “will respond once I have considered your questions fully” but Nationwide has still not posted notice of a SGM, or explained the delay in doing so.

Obviously those running the petition/campaign will be privy to more information about current status than the rest of us but to me there's a significant difference between "Nationwide has still not posted notice of a SGM" and "Nationwide is now going to ignore the petition", the latter having clear connotations of a deliberate and conscious decision.

The 'withdraw all but £100' exhortation started the day after the petition was delivered, as discussed on here at the time:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80723204/#Comment_80723204

The latest update from the campaign was added to the petition site two days ago

I've not been checking the main petition page very regularly, but are you of the opinion the comment following "Latest news" was posted there two days ago (i.e. 5 days after Nationwide promised to respond once they had considered the matter fully)?

I'd assumed that this update would have been a reaction to some further comment from Nationwide that they would not be responding. In the absence of such a further response, and as has been pointed out above, the "Latest news" would appear to meet the test for defamation, especially as it is coupled with a call for what amounts to a boycott.

My original generous interpretation was the "Latest news" was hot off the press following a response from Nationwide e.g. yesterday.

boingy

After deliberating long and hard I have decided to stage a one man 24 hour protest.

Today I have placed my debit card face down in the corner of the room and I will not speak any word that ends in "ide". I considered tougher sanctions but I shall hold them in reserve in case I need to escalate matters.

avenue12

yes I remember Nationwide made a big fuss when demutualisation was going on about being ALL for the benefits of their members and wanting to stay mutual.
Now they just run roughshod over their owner/members. Better to have been demutualised and members gotv£500.
Signed!