octopus forcing smartmeter

BeerSavesMoney

@avenue12 give Octopus a call, they should be able to verify if a meter reader was tasked to visit.

0808 164 1088

https://octopus.energy/policies/site-access/

Reed_Richards

avenue12 said:

...... I doubt a new smart meter will fit in our self made cupboard so will ruin our indoor wall. Any ideas please?

Based on my own experience, if a smart meter will not fit in the space available, it will not be fitted.  There won't be any wall ruining.

LeesArt

avenue12 said:

Hi guys love this site!
A guy came round to read our meter first time in yonks. He was reluctant to show ID, but did eventually. He went to the meter cupboard and knelt down fiddling  around for ages, so we guessed he wansn't just reading the meter.
We told him we don't want a smart meter, but he didn't reply.
Then we got an estimated bill, which was kinda odd! Then an email saying our meter is too old and must replaced by a smart meter.
Now a previous retiring meter reader told us never ever get a smart meter as they often go wrong and never undercharge!!! Plus they are going  to be used to ration energy in the future.

So anything we can do, for a start we can't read digital displays and I doubt a new smart meter will fit in our self made cupboard so will ruin our indoor wall. Any ideas please?

If someone refuses to show ID do not let them into your home, there are a lot of scammers about including people selling energy who pretend to be meter readers and initiate a move to by getting you to sign something.  A video doorbell or CCTV helps in this regard, they perform a u turn as if they were in the Guards.  

At the moment consumers can't be forced to have a Smart Meter so Energy Companies are using legitimate other reasons to install them and this includes replacing meters that are past their expected life.  Old meters vary in terms of lifetime, they seem to vary between 20 and 35 years on the models I was looking up.  Smart Meters are much more complicated in the electronics and anti tamper which may mean they go wrong or have a shorter life, the ones I have found seem to have a life between 10 and 15 years although they suggest the issue is a battery on the gas meter.  I have a wired smoke alarm with a 10 year battery and was able to replace it with an equivalent 10 year battery without replacing the device.

If your current Electric meter does not have a digital display then I suspect it is highly likely that your electric meter is past it's age, you can check the meter for the model number, the serial number and install date, then check the life of the meter model online (not on this forum).  For Gas meters the same advice applies in determining the age but not about digital display, in my experience the Gas meter is more likely to have the age of the meter.

Octopus say on their website that they do not like to send estimated reads. 

https://octopus.energy/blog/why-we-dont-send-monthly-statements/

I assume you usually give them a read, which can be for any day in the last 10 days.  So you want to get on the phone to ask them why they used estimated reads it if you already provided a read.  My concern would be that this reader gave an inaccurate read, or read an Economy 7 meter incorrectly (if you have one). Octopus staff can cancel a bill and put in a read taken on a date beyond the 10 days as long as you have a photo although they have not asked me for one.

The retiring meter reader may have been right at the time because there were a lot of SMET1 meters going in, many of these need a firmware upgrade, however, these days you are likely to get a SMET2 from Octopus.  Readers of this forum can see the meters that Octopus support here

https://octopus.energy/blog/how-to-read-your-meter/

and you can see the likely meter they will install on the Secure Liberty website, 

https://www.securemeters.com/uk/smart-metering-system/

I have a neighbour who has a liberty 100 and another one who has a Toshiba (installed by British Gas).

It is true that these devices user interface is as friendly as the proverbial cornered rat (hence the need for the how to read your meter page on the Octopus site), but Octopus would point out that they hope you will never have to read it as you will have the IHD and use their Octopus Home Mini device which can give you way more information.

https://octopus.energy/blog/octopus-home-mini/

There are dedicated websites that give all kinds of information about downfalls of Smart Meters, I would say that it varies by region and country, it seems the Canadians had a rough time of it.  However, the issues are very different because the property sizes and location of the meter are different.

In the UK I heard a long running case on the BBC Consumer show, the meter was installed in a cupboard behind the TV and the issue was interference with TV and radio.  The supplier replaced it several times and eventually put an analogue one in, they blamed the SIM module.  Another case was a lady with a hyper sensitivity to wifi and other electronic signals, in that case they moved the meter into the garage.  These cases seem to be very rare.

There are reports of them using more energy but the energy company would say that they are more accurate, I used to read my neighbours meter when I read mine as they were opposite each other, when they moved to Smart Meter they still used about the same.  

Now if you are adamant that you don't want it you can not let them in and tell them they will have to get a warrant, I doubt Octopus would do that, they would look for lower hanging fruit.

I have resisted having a Smart Meter because I have been an early adopter too many times in my life, but of all the companies to go with I would say that Octopus seems to offer the best outcomes.  HOWEVER, you may not get those benefits if you are in a rural area, if you do not have good mobile signal or if the Gas meter is too far from the Electric meter. 

So you can look up the age, you might try to ask them to make reasonable adjustments if you are visually impaired but I suspect they would say the IHD and Home Mini are those adjustments, IF THEY WORK, i.e. no issue with mobile or other environmental issue specific to your location.

If you find the meter is within it's operational life you can make a formal complaint to Octopus and ask for a deadlock letter on the matter, then escalate to ombudsman after 8 weeks.  

EssexHebridean

Just to clarify - an end of life meter is a situation where a consumer CAN be forced to have a smart meter, as a replacement is then indicated as required, and the meters available to make that replacement are SMETS2 meters. 

Refusing to let an installer in to the house in this situation is not really good advice - as the consumer will be very much in the wrong.

LeesArt

EssexHebridean said:

Just to clarify - an end of life meter is a situation where a consumer CAN be forced to have a smart meter, as a replacement is then indicated as required, and the meters available to make that replacement are SMETS2 meters. 

Refusing to let an installer in to the house in this situation is not really good advice - as the consumer will be very much in the wrong.

I wasn't advising to refuse to let an installer into the house, I said don't let anyone without adequate ID into the house and I said if he followed that path

"Now if you are adamant that you don't want it you can not let them in and tell them they will have to get a warrant, I doubt Octopus would do that, they would look for lower hanging fruit."

Anyone CAN refuse entry to anybody coming into their home, but I explained that they will have to get a warrant and expressed an opinion (which I am entitled to do for as long as this is a free country) that I doubted they would do that.

Advice would be me saying "My Advice is you do this" or "I suggest you do that".

Unlike others who simply insulted the OP I sought to answer his expressed queries and explained the likely outcomes, in my opinion

EssexHebridean

There are no "insulting" comments to the OP on the thread that I can see - everyone is being very courteous and trying to assist, then there is a bit of nostalgia and banter about 1970's power cuts. Perhaps you are confusing this with another thread? 

I'm also not going to get into semantics about a definition of "advice". 

I will reiterate my position that refusing to let an meter installer into the house in this situation would not be a sensible way of proceeding, and should not be being suggested as a viable option for the OP. End of life meter replacement is often taken pretty seriously by suppliers for several reasons - not least that if an out of date meter fails and causes an issue, they will want it to be clear that they fulfilled their duty of care to ensure that it was changed over in a timely manner.  

dunstonh

hubb said:

 I was berated by many aggressively defensive smart meter fans on the Tracker thread (and my posts flagged and banned!!!) for refusing to have one installed thus forfeiting the Tracker tariff (which turned out better for me in the end as prices are dropping in April) And yet what did we see in the BBC news a couple of days ago - up to 4 million "smart" meters not working properly and putting people into debt (smacks of the Post Office Horizon story doesn't it)  

According to the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Desnez), 2.7 million were not operating in smart mode as of June 2023. It has since revised this figure to 4.31 million, citing reporting errors from a minority of suppliers.

At the end of last year, 3.98 million were faulty.

I rest my case. Now I'll put my tin hat on and wait for the barrage of flak.

Your case is not rested as the "faulty" figures include all those that do not communicate and effectively turn into conventional meters.  If you are looking at truly faulty meters and not including broken or missing IHDs or communication then you find that the ratio of faulty smart meters is in the same ballpark as conventional meters.

Comparing it to the post office scandal is disgraceful.  you should be ashamed of yourself.  People were prosecuted and their lives ruined.    A smart meter that doesn't communicate effectively turns into a conventional meter.   How is that comparable?

EssexHebridean

Tracker and Agile tell their own stories - those who have been on them for a few years have saved - and continue to save -  a lot of money compared to many on standard tariffs. 

There are currently in the region of 35 million smart meters installed in UK homes and small business - while obviously having 4.31 million of these not working is not ideal, a good proportion of those will be SMETS1 meters which are still awaiting upgrade and enrollment onto the system or, in some cases, which are unable to be upgraded. That upgrade process is continuing, with the aim of getting as many of those older SMETS1 meters back to working fully smart as possible. 

And no - it bears no relation at all the the Post Office scandal - that is an entirely false comparison and is frankly downright insulting to those who were affected by what was a genuine scandal. It doesn't compare in the slightest with the minor inconvenience faced by outraged of Tunbridge Wells who is still having to physically provide their meter readings as their smart meter doesn't send them - that is a first world problem in comparison. I suspect it was false comparisons like that which lead to you finding yourself being challenged forcefully on the other thread. 

A smart meter not sending readings does not put someone into debt - a meter unable to be read at all could contribute to someone ending up in debt, but even in that case that person would be well advised to use their past use figures to work out what they anticipated their energy would cost them, add 10% on top, and then to put that amount of money aside until needed to pay the inevitable bills - this isn't exactly rocket science. That is called budgeting, and budgeting prevents debt, in the vast majority of cases. 

MeteredOut

hubb said:

 I was berated by many aggressively defensive smart meter fans on the Tracker thread (and my posts flagged and banned!!!) for refusing to have one installed thus forfeiting the Tracker tariff (which turned out better for me in the end as prices are dropping in April) And yet what did we see in the BBC news a couple of days ago - up to 4 million "smart" meters not working properly and putting people into debt (smacks of the Post Office Horizon story doesn't it)  

According to the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Desnez), 2.7 million were not operating in smart mode as of June 2023. It has since revised this figure to 4.31 million, citing reporting errors from a minority of suppliers.

At the end of last year, 3.98 million were faulty.

I rest my case. Now I'll put my tin hat on and wait for the barrage of flak.

Smart meters not working do not "put people into debt" and that's not what the BBC report said.

Where the system has failed is people not noticing they are being billed on estimated readings (and I do think Ofgem should be pushing suppliers to make that clearer on bills) and running up debit accounts due to their direct debit not covering their energy usage.

avenue12

So many comments! Thanks all, I've contacted Octopus already to ask why our bill was estimated and if he was a legit meter reader. Thanks for the phone no whoever it was provided, if there is.no reply soon I will call them.

I do appreciate the comment.not to let them in, as usually we are reluctant to let anyone in,.but he caught me as I was going out, so could hardly ignore him. 

What a great and interesting site this is!