CCJ found regarding PPI fees - Issued to Old address.

Jasesun

Hi guys looking for some help,

In March 2020 I was lucky enough to receive a PPI refund from Consumer Refund Services Limited.

As a result of receiving this money we moved house five months later right in the middle of the pandemic.

Fast forward 4 years and I have recently discovered a CCJ against me this week by CRSL for outstanding PPI fees.

I contacted the Civil National Business Centre to get the particulars of the claim and would like some help in completing a N244 form.

We have not had any correspondence from CRSL and was quite surprised at the claim for fees as we thought this had been taken care of once we had received the payment.

I would like to get this set aside as I believe that the time we had between receiving the payment and moving house plus 3 months of mail redirection would have been enough for them to contact us requesting payment of the fees.

I also believe having read through some of the parking CCJs that after not receiving a reply they could have attempted to find me via credit agencies, electoral register, council or maybe DVLA as these were all changed once we had moved.

In addition I believe they have other contact details for me as it forms part of their contact us form on their website. I have always transferred my mobile number, still use the same email address I used when I moved into the area 20 years ago and have transferred my landline to my new address.

Have got most of the document filled in but am struggling with section 10

Should I send witness statement, statement of truth or evidence and how much detail should be included?

Thanks in advance

Jasesun

Devongardener

Were you paid by whichever financial organisation originally charged you the PPI,  or by the claims company?    If it was the claims firm they would have deducted their fees before paying you, but not if it was the company you claimed against, so assuming you signed a contract with the claims company you definitely owe the fee, notwithstanding any change of address.     

I’d put as much detail as possible in your witness statement, but also make sure you have all the original documents.

Jasesun

Hi,

I am unsure who we received the payment from and don't have any original documents but will be contacting the bank soon to see if they have any more information on the deposit.

Unfortunately I am a month over the 30 days to pay and wanted to do all I can to get the CCJ removed.

So with regard to the N244 is the witness statement the best way to go?

Nasqueron

"Lucky" to use a leech CMC who used the same free complaints process you could have used and as a result, lost a large chunk of your refund, now have a CCJ and associated fees. End of the day, you owe them the money regardless of whether you get it set aside and your assumption on the fees and not updating your address is the problem here. You are now finding out the nasty side of these worthless companies

Jasesun

@Nasqueron

I don't disagree with you and have the money, but do not want the CCJ.

I think they could have tried harder to find me.

DullGreyGuy

Jasesun said:

@Nasqueron

I don't disagree with you and have the money, but do not want the CCJ.

I think they could have tried harder to find me.

To have it set aside you must not only justify why it should be set aside but also that you have a good prospect of winning the case when it's heard again. How are you going to fulfil the second requirement? Sounds like you do owe them money and so it won't be set aside. 

As a breach of a simple contract they had 6 years to file a claim against you, your 3 month mail forwarding was very much inadequate, there are many things that only get sent annually which you won't ever catch if you forget to update your PMI for example. 

Nasqueron

Jasesun said:

@Nasqueron

I don't disagree with you and have the money, but do not want the CCJ.

I think they could have tried harder to find me.

They probably could have but don't need to, they sent the papers to the last known correct address on file, unless it was returned to them with a "no longer at address" they wouldn't know. Further, they are unlikely to start proceedings until well after 3 months and quite possible the admin letters chasing didn't arrive until after the 3 months as well as they would be waiting for the bank to let them know. As above, a set aside does need to have a realistic chance of winning, I don't think you have that much chance here.

Jasesun

@DullGreyGuy

Again I agree I do owe the money however if I pay up I will have six years off having a very poor credit rating.

I would like to set it aside so as to have another hearing and have a chance at explaining why I didn't pay up in the first place.

I did sign a contract with them and believe that they still have my current mobile number, landline number and email address as none of these have changed and are still current even though I have moved and as per civil procedure rules they have to serve me notice of enforcement at my current address before applying for the CCJ, which they didn't.

When I moved I updated everything council tax, electoral roll, DVLA, banks & credit agencies. I didn't update them because five months after receiving payment I thought it was all done and dusted. The mail redirection after moving gave them another 3 months so eight months in total.

With regard to my initial question should I send witness statement, statement of truth or evidence and how much detail should be included?

Thanks in advance

Jasesun

DullGreyGuy

Jasesun said:

Again I agree I do owe the money however if I pay up I will have six years off having a very poor credit rating.

I would like to set it aside so as to have another hearing and have a chance at explaining why I didn't pay up in the first place.

That isn't how the process works, the courts time is considered important and they won't set aside a judgement just so you get your day in court when it's going to have the same outcome. It's more important to the courts to see the next case in the queue. 

Why you are late paying is irrelevant, the court is not a place of compassion but law. They are there to judge are you liable to pay and how much do you need to pay. If you moved house and forgot to tell them, your mother died, your spouse cheated on your etc doesn't change the wording of the contract nor your liability to pay. 

Your almost certainly throwing away the £275 application fee 

Jasesun

Filled out form N244, dropped it of at the courts a few weeks ago, paid the fee and have received a letter from the courts yesterday detailing a date for another hearing on the 29th May.

Coupon-mad

DullGreyGuy said:

Jasesun said:

@Nasqueron

I don't disagree with you and have the money, but do not want the CCJ.

I think they could have tried harder to find me.

To have it set aside you must not only justify why it should be set aside but also that you have a good prospect of winning the case when it's heard again. How are you going to fulfil the second requirement? Sounds like you do owe them money and so it won't be set aside. 

That is incorrect.

It could well be set aside, and the claim dismissed on the spot.  If they argue it properly.

The 'justification' you are talking about is not needed when applying under CPR 13.2 (mandatory set aside). Which this case would likely fall within, because as far as I can see, the claim was improperly served to an unchecked old address without taking 'reasonable steps' (CPR 6.9) to check the Defendant's address prior to litigation, especially if months or years have passed. 

The applicant can also argue successfully for the entire claim to be dismissed as it is time barred (there is no claim because it expired unserved after 4 months, assuming the claim date was over 4 months ago...).

This is regardless of whether the OP owes the money or has prospects of defence.

They do not have to convince the Judge about having good prospects of successfully defending a dead claim, because there is no claim if it's unserved within the 4 month deadline.

Having to prove the 'justification' is only the case if relying on CPR 13.3 (discretionary set aside for 'some other good reason').

Jasesun said:

I also believe having read through some of the parking CCJs that after not receiving a reply they could have attempted to find me via credit agencies, electoral register, council or maybe DVLA as these were all changed once we had moved.

In addition I believe they have other contact details for me as it forms part of their contact us form on their website. I have always transferred my mobile number, still use the same email address I used when I moved into the area 20 years ago and have transferred my landline to my new address.

I agree.  Valid points. You were 'there to be found' and CRA traces cost bulk litigators pennies (from 28 pence up to a couple of quid).  So it is arguably unreasonable that they took no steps to trace you as required under the CPRs.

But what are the dates?

Looks like you were saying in March that the CCJ was dated around January? So the claim must have been filed early January or in late 2023?

So:

Assuming 4 months has already passed since the date of the claim being filed, the OP can use the CPRs and case law used in paragraphs 38 - 73 of this typical Witness Statement used on the parking fines board to set aside unserved/expired claims and get them dismissed, without having to pay or defend:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80762703/#Comment_80762703

There is no need to prove you have a good defence if you are relying on CPR 13.2 because that rule obliges the court to set aside an unserved claim.

No ifs and no buts. It's time barred if the court agrees that the claim was improperly served.

The claim is dead if you can show you were 'there to be found' which you say you could easily have been.

Did you do a witness statement and evidence of moving and being findable?

If not, do one now and file & serve it not less than a fortnight before the hearing.

You could separate off all the case law into a skeleton argument.  That would make the WS less wordy than the linked example which throws the kitchen sink at it (why wouldn't you?).

Definitely make it clear which CPRs you are relying upon because CPR 13.3 is only a fallback.  You want to be arguing for a mandatory set aside and claim dismissal.

In the linked thread, the poster is applying under CPR 13.2, under which courts are obligated to set aside the CCJ (and have no jurisdiction to do otherwise) and under CPR 11 to contest the court's jurisdiction to hear expired/unserved parking claims x 2.

Which courts cannot, except in 'exceptional circumstances' (see the case law).