Confirmation of Payee - Santander refusing to send ISA sub to Virgin Money

Daytona

eskbanker said:

Daytona said:

eskbanker said:

Daytona said:

It's an online only account - Defined Access Cash E‑ISA Issue 25
It looks like a unique account in the email & letter VM sent explaining how to transfer money in, using Faster Payment.
Sort code 08 60 64 
Account number 12345678
(no reference required)

Do their instructions make any reference to the name of the account?  Do the above details correspond with what you received/see when opening/accessing the ISA?

Yes & yes.

OK, let's try again - what did the instructions state that you should use as the account name when completing the payment details for the CoP check?

It was ten days ago so my memory is hazy and I daren't try it again to give you the certainty you require, in case it duplicates.

I do recall that when I created the ISA, VM asked for my full name but only allowed 16 characters. My (average) length full name is 20 characters. So I had to exclude the middle name.

So I would have used my first name & surname to match the VM account.

I don't recall a specific screen for a CoP check just the usual. Payee sort code, account number, name. Santander displayed VMs bank name and address and that VM doesn't participate in CoP and asked if I wished to continue. I confirmed that I did. They displayed a message refusing the transfer.

VM ISA opened on 8th March 24
Santander to VM ISA transfer attempted and failed on 17th March

Sort code 08-60-64 says -

VIRGIN MONEY (28 CLYDESDALE BANK)

SAVINGS GOSFORTH (C/A)
which looks correct.

Good point about doing a £1 transfer first, but I daren't try any further transfers, in case they duplicate.

GeoffTF said:

What checks did you do? What did the customer services representative say? What reason did he/she give for blocking the payment?
You need to have done thorough checking. Look up the bank in the FCA Register. Paste the web address of that bank into the browser. You also need to accept that the payment is at your own risk.

I'd already answered these.

TheBanker

Daytona said:

eskbanker said:

Daytona said:

eskbanker said:

Daytona said:

It's an online only account - Defined Access Cash E‑ISA Issue 25
It looks like a unique account in the email & letter VM sent explaining how to transfer money in, using Faster Payment.
Sort code 08 60 64 
Account number 12345678
(no reference required)

Do their instructions make any reference to the name of the account?  Do the above details correspond with what you received/see when opening/accessing the ISA?

Yes & yes.

OK, let's try again - what did the instructions state that you should use as the account name when completing the payment details for the CoP check?

It was ten days ago so my memory is hazy and I daren't try it again to give you the certainty you require.

I do recall that when I created the ISA, VM asked for my full name but only allowed 16 characters. My (average) length full name is 20 characters. So I had to exclude the middle name.

So I would have used my first name & surname to match the VM account.

I don't recall a specific screen for a CoP check just the usual. Destination sort code, account number, account name. Santander displayed VMs bank name and address and that VM doesn't participate in CoP and asked if I wished to continue. I confirmed that I did. They displayed a message refusing the transfer.

This sounds odd:
1) Virgin Money would need to know your full name in order to comply with regulatory requirements. Reducing someone's name to 16 characters when it should be longer, means they will not be able to fullfil legal and regulatory obligations e.g. sanctions screening.
2) Virgin Money do participate in Confirmation of Payee
3) Even if you did not get a Confirmation of Payee match, you should have been able to proceed with the payment at your own risk.

Why daren't you try it again? If you are sure the details are right, then there's no reason not to. If you think the details might be wrong, then why are you unhappy that Santander blocked the payment?

It is possible that Santander wanted to speak to you about the transfer because they had fraud concerns. This doesn't mean they were refusing the transfer because of any issue with Confirmation of Payee - there may have been other fraud flags e.g. the payment was unusual for your account, or there was a problem with the way you answered their questions (if you went through the 'why are you making this payment?' set of questions). 

To be honest it might be easier if you call Santander for help making this payment, once you've double checked the Virgin Money account details are right. 

eskbanker

Daytona said:

eskbanker said:

Daytona said:

eskbanker said:

Daytona said:

It's an online only account - Defined Access Cash E‑ISA Issue 25
It looks like a unique account in the email & letter VM sent explaining how to transfer money in, using Faster Payment.
Sort code 08 60 64 
Account number 12345678
(no reference required)

Do their instructions make any reference to the name of the account?  Do the above details correspond with what you received/see when opening/accessing the ISA?

Yes & yes.

OK, let's try again - what did the instructions state that you should use as the account name when completing the payment details for the CoP check?

It was ten days ago so my memory is hazy and I daren't try it again to give you the certainty you require, in case it duplicates.

I do recall that when I created the ISA, VM asked for my full name but only allowed 16 characters. My (average) length full name is 20 characters. So I had to exclude the middle name.

So I would have used my first name & surname to match the VM account.

I don't recall a specific screen for a CoP check just the usual. Payee sort code, account number, name. Santander displayed VMs bank name and address and that VM doesn't participate in CoP and asked if I wished to continue. I confirmed that I did. They displayed a message refusing the transfer.

I'm not asking you to rely on your memory to review what the VM payment instruction email/letter states, you surely still have these?

In terms of concerns about retrying, if Santander told you that the transaction failed and the money hasn't arrived ten days later, what will convince you that it's not going to happen, or are you happy to just leave it?

In any case, you can easily reproduce the CoP check without actually proceeding to the final point of no return, so if you're saying that the CoP check failed with a message about VM not being participants, then it sounds like it would be worth grabbing a screenshot and forwarding it to VM for their comments?

km1500

the name of the account would likely be your name, not VM

Daytona

eskbanker said:

But what did you see when you were presented with the CoP verification page?

The censored bits are 1) My name 2) the VM account number 3) my own reference (the VM account requires no reference)
Selecting Continue anyway resulted in a transaction failed, contact us message, which I did and as I said, I got told VM not participating in CoP.

No response from Santander complaints. 
I messaged VM about the CoP failure, no response. 
Pay UK have refused to say whether Clydesdale, Virgin Money or accounts with the sort code 08 60 64 participate. 
So it's going to the regulator. 

Daytona

eskbanker said:

In terms of concerns about retrying, if Santander told you that the transaction failed and the money hasn't arrived ten days later, what will convince you that it's not going to happen, or are you happy to just leave it?

Because I complained and told them to transfer the money.

wmb194

Do you not have another current account with another bank that you can use to make the deposit? Or does the deposit have to come from a nominated account?

friolento

With some banks, you don’t get a COP match until the next working day after setting up a new account.

Did you try to send your money immediately after setting up the ISA? If so, have you tried again since?

friolento

Daytona said:

eskbanker said:

But what did you see when you were presented with the CoP verification page?

The censored bits are 1) My name 2) the VM account number 3) my own reference (the VM account requires no reference)
Selecting Continue anyway resulted in a transaction failed, contact us message, which I did and as I said, I got told VM not participating in CoP.

No response from Santander complaints. 
I messaged VM about the CoP failure, no response. 
Pay UK have refused to say whether Clydesdale, Virgin Money or accounts with the sort code 08 60 64 participate. 
So it's going to the regulator. 

The regulator (PRA) is unlikely to consider complaints from the Public. You would need to follow the complaints process you can find on the Santander website. However, Santander did nothing wrong, so a complaint won’t help you, and in any case not before April 6 this year.

Rollinghome

Haven't read the full thread so likely irrelevant, but my wife had problems with Santander's COP, using their website,  just half an hour ago.

She wanted to set up her Leeds BS account as a payee on her current account.  She already has the same details set up for payments from her Santander savings account but intends to close that soon.

As soon as she entered the sort code, a message told her that the code didn't exist.  We both checked it and it was right.  So she ignored the message, entered the account number and was instantly bounced out of the account.  Logged in again, and was able to enter all details, sort+account+personal, all checked by both of us, but was told the payee couldn't be verified, did she want to proceed?  The details had already been verified for her Sant savings account and numerous payments made, but was a bit spooked so logged into her Leeds account to confirm.

She logged into Santander for the third time, entered all the same details again, and it was verified instantly. (She's  got 71 payees set up for her current account, and I've got a few hundred, so it wasn't exactly something either of us hadn't done before.)