The case of the missing deposit

our_des

Trying to find my deposit and having no luck, any advice would be helpful. Last known whereabouts of the deposit were March 2018 when the landlord unprotected it from MyDeposits - only found this month when trying to locate it.


Background:
My husband and I rented a flat from August 2013 - Feb 2024. It was an AST, renewing after the first 6 months for 12 months until 2019 it went to a rolling contract February 2019. If it has any relevance, the original landlord was the private rental side of a housing association, they sold it in April 2019 to an Australian investment firm (it was a bulk purchase, they sold off around 25 flats within our area) then it was sold as another bulk purchase to a couple in Hong Kong 2020.


When we gave notice to the current letting agent in January, I asked if they knew where our deposit was as I'd searched the certificate number we had and it was no longer showing up. This request was ignored and I pressed them for an answer, after I'd done some researching and found that when a new owner had bought it, we should have been given updated prescribed information. I had this response (this agent worked for the previous letting agent who managed it),

"With regard to your deposit, it seems we have an issue – I have checked with the previous agency and they never received payment of your deposit from the agent prior to them." 

Then after some questioning and me supplying the certificate number I had this response,

"Thank you for your deposit information and the photographs, I will contact Mydeposits now to request confirmation they are holding your deposit and arrange for the release. For reference, when X took over management, around 20 Y properties were transferred into their management and the responsibility for the transfer of deposits etc was with them. Similarly, when Z took over management from X, around 15 apartments were transferred at once and all deposits requested as part of the transfer. It seems your deposit was not transferred on either occasion which is far from ideal and we sincerely apologise for this oversight."

I've contacted the original landlord to find out if they can advise on if they still have it somewhere/why it was taken out of MyDeposits in 2018 and/or if it was transferred with the sale but no response from them yet. Also contacted the 2nd landlord and again, no response.

Feels a bit like I'm going in circles and no one was going to willingly admit they messed up protecting it as it would leave them liable but I don't want to let our deposit vanish into thin air. Is this one for a legal team to sort out instead of me?

ETA: current agent have done a check out and told me they wouldn't deduct anything from the deposit if they found it as they had no check in information passed on through the change of agents/sales but I did have my copies/photos

propertyrental

It's not your job to 'find' the original deposit. It is a legal requirement for the current landlord to

a) ensure it is protected (and if not you can claim the penalty of up to 3 times the deposit) and

b) return the deposit to you

Where the current LL finds the £ to return to you is his problem - his pocket? under his mattress? His dad's savings account? So long as he returns it it's not your problem. And if he doesn't, it becomes HIS problem!

Write (yes write) to the LL, and cc the agent, demanding the return of your deposit in 5 working days. Refer to the Housing Act and the LL's failure to protect the deposit and your right to claim the penalty.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/part/6/chapter/4

(assuming the property is in England)

our_des

propertyrental said:

It's not your job to 'find' the original deposit. It is a legal requirement for the current landlord to

a) ensure it is protected (and if not you can claim the penalty of up to 3 times the deposit) and

b) return the deposit to you

Where the current LL finds the £ to return to you is his problem - his pocket? under his mattress? His dad's savings account? So long as he returns it it's not your problem. And if he doesn't, it becomes HIS problem!

Write (yes write) to the LL, and cc the agent, demanding the return of your deposit in 5 working days. Refer to the Housing Act and the LL's failure to protect the deposit and your right to claim the penalty.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/part/6/chapter/4

(assuming the property is in England)

Yes it's England. Thanks for that link, just had a reply back from the current agent as I'd asked for an update and it's a bit sassy,
"As I understand it, it is illegal for an agent to hold funds in a client account or otherwise without a valid deposit protection being in place, however as Z have not received funds for your deposit to allow us to protect it, I am unsure as to what penalty (if any) can be imposed on the agent or landlord for the current set of circumstances."

propertyrental

Dear Mr agent,

It is the LL's obligation to protect the deposit. Failure to do so lays him open to the penalty as defined in the Housing Act 2004 section 212.

As agent, you act for the LL. You are therefore equally culpable under the Act. If the LL failed to give the deposit to you to protect, you should have acted in your professional capacity to advise your client, the LL, of his and your obligations.

If the deposit (value £xxx) is not returned to me within 5 working days I shall commence proceedings in the County Court, using Form N208, naming yourselves and the Landlord as joint defendants.

theartfullodger

You write/email THE CURRENT  LANDLORD, copy agent, keep copy regarding unprotected deposit.  The landlord owes you the deposit and penalty for not protecting it (up to 3xdeposit)  - actually possible for you to sue all landlords who were landlord when deposit not protected correctly - see.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/renting/change_of_landlord/tenants_rights_when_a_landlord_sells

You don't care where it is - he/it could have gambled it away for all you care - he/it still owes it, even if tyey have nothing in the bank.

See...
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/how_to_get_your_deposit_back/if_your_deposit_is_not_protected

In your shoes I'd start, using Shelter's guidance, going after the deposit penalty.

By the way when landlords changed did you get notice(s) compliant with s48 & s3?? If not no rent due (!! s48) and possible fines and criminal offence. 




Artful: Landlord since 2000

our_des

Thanks Artful!

With the 1st sale we got the S48 & S3 but nothing with the 2nd. We didn't even know the 2nd sale had happened (or that is was even being sold again) until a sum of money equal to the value of the monthly rent landed in our account one day, I had to chase the letting agent to find out and then get in touch with the new letting agent.

TheJP

our_des said:

Thanks Artful!

With the 1st sale we got the S48 & S3 but nothing with the 2nd. We didn't even know the 2nd sale had happened (or that is was even being sold again) until a sum of money equal to the value of the monthly rent landed in our account one day, I had to chase the letting agent to find out and then get in touch with the new letting agent.

What was the amount of the deposit? From what you say here it sounds like the deposit was returned to you after the sale but the agent didn't request a new deposit for it to be protected? Did you query why a months rent had been deposited into your account?

our_des

TheJP said:

our_des said:

Thanks Artful!

With the 1st sale we got the S48 & S3 but nothing with the 2nd. We didn't even know the 2nd sale had happened (or that is was even being sold again) until a sum of money equal to the value of the monthly rent landed in our account one day, I had to chase the letting agent to find out and then get in touch with the new letting agent.

What was the amount of the deposit? From what you say here it sounds like the deposit was returned to you after the sale but the agent didn't request a new deposit for it to be protected? Did you query why a months rent had been deposited into your account?

It was the rent paid to them after the sale. 

I have just had confirmation from the 2nd owners that the letting agent they used still has it and it was not protected. 

GDB2222

our_des said:

TheJP said:

our_des said:

Thanks Artful!

With the 1st sale we got the S48 & S3 but nothing with the 2nd. We didn't even know the 2nd sale had happened (or that is was even being sold again) until a sum of money equal to the value of the monthly rent landed in our account one day, I had to chase the letting agent to find out and then get in touch with the new letting agent.

What was the amount of the deposit? From what you say here it sounds like the deposit was returned to you after the sale but the agent didn't request a new deposit for it to be protected? Did you query why a months rent had been deposited into your account?

It was the rent paid to them after the sale. 

I have just had confirmation from the 2nd owners that the letting agent they used still has it and it was not protected. 

So, you are getting it returned to you?

You can issue proceedings claiming up to 3 times the deposit, but the multiple is at the discretion of the court and this might be at the lower end of the scale. You may be better off suing the second owner, as they are based in the UK, whereas the current owners are overseas. 

theartfullodger

GDB2222 said:

our_des said:

TheJP said:

our_des said:

Thanks Artful!

With the 1st sale we got the S48 & S3 but nothing with the 2nd. We didn't even know the 2nd sale had happened (or that is was even being sold again) until a sum of money equal to the value of the monthly rent landed in our account one day, I had to chase the letting agent to find out and then get in touch with the new letting agent.

What was the amount of the deposit? From what you say here it sounds like the deposit was returned to you after the sale but the agent didn't request a new deposit for it to be protected? Did you query why a months rent had been deposited into your account?

It was the rent paid to them after the sale. 

I have just had confirmation from the 2nd owners that the letting agent they used still has it and it was not protected. 

So, you are getting it returned to you?

You can issue proceedings claiming up to 3 times the deposit, but the multiple is at the discretion of the court and this might be at the lower end of the scale. You may be better off suing the second owner, as they are based in the UK, whereas the current owners are overseas. 

Fair point, but current owner has assets in UK and if they don't pay up after court ruling  it's cheap and simple then to put a charge on one of their property assets (eg the property being rented..).  It will eventually pay out... ....

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/debt-collection/charging-orders-and-my-home.aspx

GDB2222

theartfullodger said:

GDB2222 said:

our_des said:

TheJP said:

our_des said:

Thanks Artful!

With the 1st sale we got the S48 & S3 but nothing with the 2nd. We didn't even know the 2nd sale had happened (or that is was even being sold again) until a sum of money equal to the value of the monthly rent landed in our account one day, I had to chase the letting agent to find out and then get in touch with the new letting agent.

What was the amount of the deposit? From what you say here it sounds like the deposit was returned to you after the sale but the agent didn't request a new deposit for it to be protected? Did you query why a months rent had been deposited into your account?

It was the rent paid to them after the sale. 

I have just had confirmation from the 2nd owners that the letting agent they used still has it and it was not protected. 

So, you are getting it returned to you?

You can issue proceedings claiming up to 3 times the deposit, but the multiple is at the discretion of the court and this might be at the lower end of the scale. You may be better off suing the second owner, as they are based in the UK, whereas the current owners are overseas. 

Fair point, but current owner has assets in UK and if they don't pay up after court ruling  it's cheap and simple then to put a charge on one of their property assets (eg the property being rented..).  It will eventually pay out... ....

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/debt-collection/charging-orders-and-my-home.aspx

I looked into it, and my recollection is that a charge placed unilaterally falls away after 15 years.