Care home fees following dementia diagnosis

hungry_hippo

Hi

My mum was recently diagnosed with vascular dementia following a stroke and is currently in hospital. She's got no short term memory at all unfortunately, and is highly confused, so it's looking likely she'll have to be discharged to a care home. She owns a 1 bedroom flat where she lives on her own (leasehold, mortgage paid off). She is also a rent guarantor for my sister. My sister has schizophrenia, she doesn't get PIP though would probably qualify. She used to get DLA but since upgrading to UC, she only gets that now. She's not required to look for work because of her mental health diagnosis, though she has occasionally managed to get 16 hour a week jobs. She can never hold these down for long due to her illness flaring up, so ends up having to leave (she's not working right now).

If my mum goes into a care home, the council will want the house selling to pay the fees, and also all my mum's pensions etc to pay fees. She's only got <10k savings, though her pension is maybe 27k pa. She also pays over 50% of my sister's private rent, and this is the problem. If she can't pay my sister's rent my sister will be homeless, and she lives in London in an area with social housing shortages.

We were thinking maybe my sister could move into my mum's house, as I don't think the council can sell her house if an incapacitated person is living there. Just wondering how this would be viewed - would it be seen as depriving them of an asset, given she didn't live there before mum's diagnosis? That's not what we're trying to do, we just want my sister to have somewhere to live and the council will basically take the rent money my mum pays, to use for care home fees (I think)

Thanks

Albermarle

Just wondering how this would be viewed - would it be seen as depriving them of an asset, given she didn't live there before mum's diagnosis?

It probably would be viewed like that.

A possible solution is that the council can take a lien on the property. This means that it is not sold yet, but the care fees are loaded on the house as a debt to be paid when it is sold later.

I guess this would be subject to negotiation with the local authority, and may or may not be possible. Also when you Mum passes away the house would be sold, and her sister would have to find somewhere else to live.

OutdoorQueen

It might be worth talking to Shelter: https://england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

I’m wondering if your sister would be considered a dependant of your mum, due to her specific circumstances and therefore this would need to be considered when undertaking any financial assessment.  

I really don’t know.  

Spoonie_Turtle

"She used to get DLA but since upgrading to UC, she only gets that now."
I know nothing about care home fees etc. but your sister's DLA wouldn't have stopped because of claiming UC; the two are nothing to do with each other.  

The potential reasons for her DLA stopping would be:
A DLA review came and either she didn't complete and return the form, or she was refused at review (the latter unlikely from what I hear of DLA)
Or
'invited' (required) to claim PIP with her DLA set to end, and didn't return the form by the deadline or - possibly more likely - refused PIP upon claiming, with the possibility that that was an incorrect decision.

I think, unless her DLA stopping was within the last 13 months, whatever happened the only option now would be to claim PIP but likely some support is required to do that and to know whether she should challenge an unsuccessful claim.  I don't want to imply any of that burden should be on you, but at the same time, if your sister can get some benefits help (including checking she's getting the right amount of UC, with the LCWRA element if appropriate) then it might also help simplify the overall situation with your mother's care fees.

elsien

Does anyone have power-of-attorney for your mum? If not, someone is going to need to apply for deputyship which takes some time.
Unless she has direct debit set up at the moment, you have no legal mechanism for accessing her bank accounts, or speaking to anyone on her behalf.

There is an argument for your sister being financially dependent on your mum with regards to rent, but you would need to get specialist advice about her moving into the flat now as it may be too late. The rules tend to apply for people already living there, not moving in to circumvent those rules. 

I hate to say this, but it also begs the question to what happen when your mum passes away - what is going to happen to your sister’s rent then when any inheritance runs out? 

hungry_hippo

No, annoyingly I could have setup POA in January and I even started the forms with mum when she still had capacity, - I was going to finish them up and send them the weekend after, but then this happened.   

We had a meeting today with an OT- it was meant to be a full meeting with social services/doctors etc but they had to cancel at the last minute as social services hadn't finished their checks.  It's been re-arranged for next week.  The OT gave us the gist.  They've agreed to discharge my mum to home on condition that my sister moves in, as she needs 24 hours care.  If my sister didn't move in, following mum's assessment, they would have to discharge her to a care home.

I know my mum would much rather go home and I think she'll recover  better in her home environment with carers and my sister there, rather than going straight from hospital into a care home , where I think she will be unhappy / confused and decline further.  Social services are going to part fund it.

I don't know what will happen with the organising of the funding from my mum's side as we don't have POA and as you said, if we need deputy-ship, that takes time to set up.  Is it likely social services will ask her children to pay for weekly home care costs in the meantime, or is that not something that's done?  Or will they defer it and pay until it can be fully set up to come from my mum's accounts.  She has <5k savings,but has ok pensions, as she gets my dad's teachers pension who passed away, and also her NHS pension as she was a nurse. It's not enough to pay care home fees, but it would be enough to fund home care with social service funding help - but it's how to access it without the POA/deputyship being set up. I'll be asking them next Wed at the meeting of course 

elsien

There is no obligation on her children to pay anything. Push back if anyone suggests it. If they have to wait then they have to wait. In my area there’s a delay of a couple of months even to do the initial financial assessment let alone sort out the payment plan, so I shouldn’t worry about that too much at the moment,

In the meantime though you can apply to the DWP to be her appointee for her state pension and any other benefits that she gets for example she will now be eligible for attendance allowance if she wasn’t doing so before.
Which will allow some money to come in and can be paid into a bank account in the appointees name. Which would at least give her some money coming in tide her over and it’s much quicker – between 2 to 3 months I think.  

You might also need to think about the plan with your sister in the long term. Caring for someone can be very hard even with help coming in and she needs to be sure if she can cope before considering giving up her own flat, if that is one of the options on the radar. Care may be limited to 3 or four calls a day and your sister will be on her own the rest of the time outside of family help. It can be harder than working because there is no down time and your sister is not able to work long-term so just something to think about. 

And don’t forget to ask about any necessary equipment for your mum - mobility aids, shower chair - if they’ve not done a home OT assessment, then they need to do one for both  your mother and your sister’s safety. 

hungry_hippo

thanks for all the advice!