In my day... motivation to work

mxxx

I've been finding more and more lately that 'good service' and acting in the interest of the customer seems to be a lost art and I've also spent some time with my sister who has terrible spending habits, no money and is constantly digging herself into more and more debt and just hiding under the covers and hoping it'll go away. It got me thinking and I had a couple of theories that the country may be in the midst of a problem many years in the making, so wanted to put it out there and see if anyone agrees?
1. I feel like the overabundance and ease at which you can get credit now (for almost anything) has created a disconnect between working (to earn money) and being able to have nice things. When I was growing up I was taught that if you didn't have the money for something, you went without and if you wanted something nice you would work hard and save up for it, so you felt a sense of achievement when you 'earnt' it. Now you can just have anything you want (almost) and worry about paying for it later. 

2. Also, when I was growing up, most companies were smaller than they are now and it was usually easy (easier?) to see a link between the job you were doing and the direct success of the company (or the business owners), instilling a certain value in what you did. You felt connected in a way that you would want the customers to be happy, so they would come back and in turn the business would be more successful. Everywhere you go now small businesses have been forced out and employees have no correlation between working hard and or providing good service, and the success of the business. They're basically just turning up to get paid, it doesn't matter whether they work hard or do a good job, so there's no incentive.

I know I'm generalising A LOT here, but I wanted to put my thoughts out there and see if anyone else agrees. I'm particularly interested if anyone has done any research into point 1.
Thanks for your time.

Ectophile

1. The people who save money in the bank, and expect to get interest on their savings, are relying on the people who haven't got money.  It's those people who are borrowing the money from the bank to buy things they can't afford.  If everybody hoarded their money, the economy would grind to a halt.

2. People want cheap.  Cheap stuff comes from big retailers who can operate on slim margins.

LightFlare

I somewhat agree.

 Credit has become far too easy to get in the last 30years - further fuelled by historically low interest rates.

We have a whole generation almost who have been raised with easy and cheap credit.

Interest rates going up has been a good thing, since it has slowed (somewhat) borrowing down and making people think more about their money - or hopefully has.

One of the main drivers for credit has been cars on PCP deals (imo). Nowadays it seems to be almost an essential item on peoples budget of 3-400 a month for their car. Great if you can afford it, but many can’t and just have to have the latest shiny new 4 wheeled thing on their drive that costs 35k and only does 5000 miles a year. It’s financially terrible, but people just do t see it

People might perceive current interest rates to be high, but they do t actually seem to be preventing the majority from spending.
Raise them another 3-5% for 2-3 years and that would have the desired shock factor to really change peoples spending and financial bad habits

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Ectophile said:

2. People want cheap.  Cheap stuff comes from big retailers who can operate on slim margins.

I don't think people want cheap stuff, I think people want too much stuff and they can't afford it all so buy cheap to own more. 

Everywhere you look there is stuff for every interest, if cycling is your thing you need a helmet and a bike, if it's camping you need a tent and sleeping bag, both interests have markets of vast amounts of stuff that the cool kids on social media indirectly advertise to make people feel their lives aren't as good as others without owning it all. 

Same as a day at the beach, the sheer volume of junk people take is unreal, a kid needs a bucket and spade and you need a few quid for ice creams or fish and chips. 

Everywhere you turn there is stuff, endless stuff, none of which creates a sense of being fulfilled. I'm not religious but a least it surrounded itself with strong moral principles and ideals, our rampant consumerism is completely hollow and detaches us further from ideals of family, love and community leading to a void that is filled with yet more consumption.

An ideal situation for those big companies that can starve off competition through economies of scales and hoard vast fortunes whilst paying workers with poor working conditions in developing countries next to nothing resulting in us being hooked in to their game with fleeting, cheap hits. 

The state of humanity is severely depressing and the advancement of AI is only going to serve the current objective of transferring the majority of wealth into the hands of the very few even further. 

Better off being out the game and finding satisfaction in the simple things in life with those people who are close to you, if you are lucky enough to have them. 

mxxx

Interesting point about the borrowing helping the people who are saving, hadn't looked at it like that before. 

@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head your comment about the state of humanity is exactly what I was getting at. I was severely hoping that I was just being narrow minded and a bit of perspective might help me see things in a different light but so far I'm just getting confirmation.  (This isn't FB so hopefully I'm getting fairly unbiased responses without some algorithm creating an echo chamber for me). 
I totally get the error whole "better off being out the game" approach though, that's what I'm striving for. I just wish more of my long term friends would come along with me so I didn't feel like the only one. 

twopenny

The borrowing and saving thing is a modern view.
It is only simplified to that by the way the ecconomy has grown into massive institutions led by a few with the eye on more money than they could ever need.
My grandmother used to invest her savngs into small businesses or personal loans, arranged through the bank. This came from knowing your customer, caring and trust a two way, profitable to both.
Building societies were to help the average man.
Teenagers were expected to get holiday jobs and save. Managers were visible to make sure you gave good customer service. This is what you did before uni or college.
If you worked and lived at home you were expected to contribute to the household bills. If you wanted a car you saved for it yourself.
Credit was something you tried to avoid as it's so hard to get out of debt.

There were a lot of plusses to the way of life not applicable to the question but the turnaround from feeling an individual with a purpose in a community and becoming a number I agree with. It no longer has the support and self worth.

ThumbRemote

There are two fundamental shifts in society, both of which get acknowledged but not really discussed, that have a significant effect on younger adults in particular. 

1. The rise in house prices relative to earnings means that many young people (if not most) will never own a house. Or if they do it's only if they are gifted money from parents or left it in a will, neither of which they have any control over. This means there's both no incentive to save, and means that they don't get into the habit of saving. 

2. The break between wages and company earnings. What's the point in working hard when it has no benefit to you, but just makes someone else wealthier? If you're paying minimum wage you're paying for minimum effort.  

alidai

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ectophile said:

2. People want cheap.  Cheap stuff comes from big retailers who can operate on slim margins.

I don't think people want cheap stuff, I think people want too much stuff and they can't afford it all so buy cheap to own more. 

Everywhere you look there is stuff for every interest, if cycling is your thing you need a helmet and a bike, if it's camping you need a tent and sleeping bag, both interests have markets of vast amounts of stuff that the cool kids on social media indirectly advertise to make people feel their lives aren't as good as others without owning it all. 

Same as a day at the beach, the sheer volume of junk people take is unreal, a kid needs a bucket and spade and you need a few quid for ice creams or fish and chips. 

Everywhere you turn there is stuff, endless stuff, none of which creates a sense of being fulfilled. I'm not religious but a least it surrounded itself with strong moral principles and ideals, our rampant consumerism is completely hollow and detaches us further from ideals of family, love and community leading to a void that is filled with yet more consumption.

An ideal situation for those big companies that can starve off competition through economies of scales and hoard vast fortunes whilst paying workers with poor working conditions in developing countries next to nothing resulting in us being hooked in to their game with fleeting, cheap hits. 

The state of humanity is severely depressing and the advancement of AI is only going to serve the current objective of transferring the majority of wealth into the hands of the very few even further. 

Better off being out the game and finding satisfaction in the simple things in life with those people who are close to you, if you are lucky enough to have them. 

This is hilarious, just because it doesn’t create a sense of fulfilment for you who are you to say it doesnt for others?

There has always been “stuff”, its just way more visible now, if you dont want it then fine, but for others who do want a tent or a bike to enjoy their hobby, what’s the issue

DullGreyGuy

mxxx said:

I've been finding more and more lately that 'good service' and acting in the interest of the customer seems to be a lost art and I've also spent some time with my sister who has terrible spending habits, no money and is constantly digging herself into more and more debt and just hiding under the covers and hoping it'll go away. It got me thinking and I had a couple of theories that the country may be in the midst of a problem many years in the making, so wanted to put it out there and see if anyone agrees?
1. I feel like the overabundance and ease at which you can get credit now (for almost anything) has created a disconnect between working (to earn money) and being able to have nice things. When I was growing up I was taught that if you didn't have the money for something, you went without and if you wanted something nice you would work hard and save up for it, so you felt a sense of achievement when you 'earnt' it. Now you can just have anything you want (almost) and worry about paying for it later. 

2. Also, when I was growing up, most companies were smaller than they are now and it was usually easy (easier?) to see a link between the job you were doing and the direct success of the company (or the business owners), instilling a certain value in what you did. You felt connected in a way that you would want the customers to be happy, so they would come back and in turn the business would be more successful. Everywhere you go now small businesses have been forced out and employees have no correlation between working hard and or providing good service, and the success of the business. They're basically just turning up to get paid, it doesn't matter whether they work hard or do a good job, so there's no incentive.

I know I'm generalising A LOT here, but I wanted to put my thoughts out there and see if anyone else agrees. I'm particularly interested if anyone has done any research into point 1.
Thanks for your time.

Availability of credit is only one aspect of the problem. 

My parents were of an older generation and when growing up there was a real sense of knowing your place. My father had a Ford, changed it every few years as he did crazy mileage, but there was never a question of if maybe he should get an Audi or Merc, that wasn't his place. These days you'll be told to aim higher, fake it until you make it etc. 

I dont think we've fully embraced the "American Dream" but it does seem that these days that far too many aspire to a champagne lifestyle with Channel handbags, Gucci sunglasses, Rolex watches etc. With the younger generation it's getting worse and forming a sense of entitlement to have such things rather than just hoping for an ability to pay for it. This is then compounded by the ever increasing cheap credit where you too can buy these things on the never never. 


Not sure your age but in the 80s it didnt feel that companies were smaller, most stores were national chains by then, maybe there as been consolidation of chains since then but I dont think most know that two stores under different brands have the same parent company. 

The "customer is always right" and a happy customer is a repeat customer type ideas had already gone, if they ever existed, by the time I was working. There were customers that abused the systems and if they remain repeat customers they could sink a business not make it thrive. There's a big cost on "customer is always right" and just looking at these forums people complain about the same company time and time again so clearly they are going back to them despite what they saw as bad service previously. 

In real terms many things are much cheaper today than they were in my childhood. Some of that is improvements in mechanisation but a lot is companies taking thinner margins. Cost bases have been driven down in part in retail by having less staff... CCTV, security tags etc all mean shoplifting doesn't have to be prevented by staff walking the floors. Customers can do their own checkout etc. A lot less staff, a bit less work, now the guy on NMW is told he should be aiming to buy a Porsche not a Fiesta thats as old as him etc and you have a more demoralised workforce. 

You can understand why the big giants of the day either evolved or fell over. In my first job, call centre for a mail order company, our target was 95% of calls answered within 10 seconds. As a consequence I spend a fair amount of my shift sitting around chatting to my neighbour as we were overstaffed to hit the target. You were supposed to keep your average "wrap up" (time after a call before you present yourself as available for typing notes etc) to 30 seconds a call... I had days when it was 0 as there was no risk in making yourself available immediately. Going from that to what call centres became before I escaped where there is a near constant queue of calls and your bouncing from one caller to the next was a different world. I didnt give worse service, in my opinion, but it was more stressful and I had less autonomy in my decisions, now the computer would tell me what to reduce someones monthly payments to rather than it being my decision. 

What I find amusing, certainly in retail, is that things dont improve as you go up the food chain. Probably linked to point 1, their shops are swamped with the want to bes rather than the people that are going to be regular paying customers. Oddly, it is different if you move outside of retail. 

thriftytracey

When I have a clear out I am always astonished at the amount of "stuff" purchased when I worked with no thought of the money I could have saved.  For example we have 2 pressure washers, we have 15 vases, so many kitchen appliances no longer used etc, etc.  Now I manage OK on a retirement income far lower than my previous working salary.  Practically do a business case and lots of research now when making a purchase.  Also avoid "going to the shops" and end up buying "stuff" which I used to do at the weekends when working, retail therapy eh?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

alidai said:

This is hilarious, just because it doesn’t create a sense of fulfilment for you who are you to say it doesnt for others?

There has always been “stuff”, its just way more visible now, if you dont want it then fine, but for others who do want a tent or a bike to enjoy their hobby, what’s the issue

To be clear I didn't say you shouldn't enjoy riding a bike or sleeping in a tent, I said the 400 gadgets they sell to go along side the hobby don't create fulfilment, rather a certain level of satisfaction is only able to be achieved by constantly upping the game so to speak.

You go for a walk in the woods, it's nice, you start listing to music whilst you do it to increase the enjoyment, you start buying clothes, shoes, GPS trackers, night vison googles and end up looking like you are in the SAS but that level of enjoyment is likely no greater than the original silent walk in the woods, the problem is the baseline for enjoyment is increasingly heightened and it seems that is rarely reset due to the persistent drive to consume. 

It's a very philosophical issue, there's a lot of suggestion out there that owning possessions does not create happiness, both in religion and in studies conducted. 

I would suggest most who believe they have found a true sense of purpose or uttermost happiness simply in owning possessions have severe emotional pain they wish to avoid, possibly to the point of delusion.