IHD DISPLAYING DAY RATE AT NIGHT

lacoaster

I have a SMETS1Secure smart meter that was fitted by E.on in 2017 and I have an IHD that came with it.
I have since moved to EDF back in 2022 and I do remember there being some communication about limitations of my smart meter due to it being SMETS1 not SMETS2 but cannot find the actual communication. I'm fairly sure it was something to do with the frequency of the readings.
I digress, I still have the IHD attached and so far as I can tell it has been displaying the correct tariff price and use for the past number of years that I have been with EDF - I am on economy 7 day/night rate. 
I work evenings and so often come home late and at approximately 3.am 10th March I notice an unusually high usage reading on my IHD - around twice anything I normally see. I checked it and it was displaying my usage but at my day rate not my night rate. It has never done this before and the next evening it went back to normal but has done it on two more occasions since.
I have contacted EDF obviously but am not entirely sure what to make of their response which amounts to the IHD not showing the correct data.
My first Q is, can the IHD show something that runs contrary to what the meter is transmitting or displaying and if so how and why would it do that sporadically?
Secondly, is there any way to display which rate is in current use on the smart meter itself or is the current rate in use always the first one to be displayed when you take a manual reading?
Many thanks in advance,
Lance.

dunstonh

 I notice an unusually high usage reading on my IHD - around twice anything I normally see.

High as in kWh or £?

My first Q is, can the IHD show something that runs contrary to what the meter is transmitting or displaying and if so how and why would it do that sporadically?

There are stories of IHD's playing up.   However, you can verify that by comparing what it says on the meter.

Secondly, is there any way to display which rate is in current use on the smart meter itself or is the current rate in use always the first one to be displayed when you take a manual reading?

There are some IHDs that do that.  Some that don't.

Scot_39

I'd be checking whether the correct register is incrementing at night on those "off" days.

It's the kWh figures that drive the actual bills not £/p estimates.

There just for display as a guide.


My IHD only displays what the current tariff rate - from meter or own s/w ?

I only see it in passing normally as cycle display to get from my preferred  use in W/ kWh and meter estimated costs which I log regularly per day week month.

Note I say meter estimated (or is it IHD) not actual costs though.

They go wrong at times - e.g. EOn sent credit not DD rates to many non standard tariff meters last Apr - about 7% higher  - but billed correctly using DD rates (and yes I checked bills very carefully after noticing).

IHD info /  meter logging ? - do seem a bit buggy though. 
Like on mine it reported a zero use for 1 week at new year.  But I had readings logged for same week  last year.  I checked that month's statement /  bill against daily log usage - at time - and seemed OK - so not worried about it since.

lacoaster

dunstonh said:

 I notice an unusually high usage reading on my IHD - around twice anything I normally see.

High as in kWh or £?

My first Q is, can the IHD show something that runs contrary to what the meter is transmitting or displaying and if so how and why would it do that sporadically?

There are stories of IHD's playing up.   However, you can verify that by comparing what it says on the meter.

Secondly, is there any way to display which rate is in current use on the smart meter itself or is the current rate in use always the first one to be displayed when you take a manual reading?

There are some IHDs that do that.  Some that don't.

I can choose to display either wattage being used or cost per hour at the stated rate so it was high in both kWh & £'s obviously as it was displaying my normal usage but on day rate which is more than twice the cost of night rate.

Scot_39

High kW or kWh ?

Took your original as if were using 1kW load

It's showing say 35p (per hour I guess implicit) running cost rather than 15p (taking my suppliers em e7 rates from table)

Or at z kW, z x 35p / z x 15p

The high kWh bit confusing vs normal usage..

And again as you say High


Do you rely on meter load switching - e.g. for immersion or storage heaters on a timed  (time restricted) supply circuit  - to control such loads or seperare timers on 24/7 live feed ?

If meter load switching -  does the high confirm some of devices on the restricted time circuit were switched on by meter - when you were being shown the high day rate costs on IHD ?


The two should of course match - tariff and load switching -  but a few posts in past have suggested  otherwise.

Netexporter

My relatively new SMETS2 meter and IHD only shows one rate, presumably a historic average, as my tariff changes price every half-hour.

lacoaster

Scot_39 said:

High kW or kWh ?

Took your original as if were using 1kW load

It's showing say 35p (per hour I guess implicit) running cost rather than 15p (taking my suppliers em e7 rates from table)

Or at z kW, z x 35p / z x 15p

The high kWh bit confusing vs normal usage..

And again as you say High


Do you rely on meter load switching - e.g. for immersion or storage heaters on a timed  (time restricted) supply circuit  - to control such loads or seperare timers on 24/7 live feed ?

If meter load switching -  does the high confirm some of devices on the restricted time circuit were switched on by meter - when you were being shown the high day rate costs on IHD ?


The two should of course match - tariff and load switching -  but a few posts in past have suggested  otherwise.

Scot, let's forget kW & kWh.
I have a timed circuit for storage heaters and they operate at the correct times.
I have a manual timer for immersion heater.
I'm on economy 7
Day rate: 35p/kWh
Night rate 16p/kWh
This is what I should be charged for any energy I use between certain times of the day and this what my IHD has shown for years until now.
So when the rate should change at 00:30 to night rate, but the IHD is clearly showing Day rate, the cost is more than twice as much per hour. <<< This is the 'High' that alerted me.
I'm trying to find out how and why it is displaying that instead of what it normally displays which is the correct night rate and if I am being charged for what the IHD is displaying or not. So far EDF supports answers haven't been that convincing one way or another.
I am asking a technical question.
Where does the IHD get it's data to display and can it display something different to the meter?
I'd like to understand if and how that is possible.

 

Scot_39

The IHD has no external link to the real world.

It only talks to the comms hub - the comms hub - generally fitted to the electric meter - talks to the meter(s) and to the outside world - these days generally via DCC network.

I have no idea how the data is exchanged - and how that data is packeted / transmission frequency etc.

Which takes me back to my point above - it's the meter that matters - and I know thats can be a pain to access at night for E7 - but.

Some meters have simple display icons for the active rate  / register etc - like an arrow pointing to or an R1 or R2 etc on display as a symbol - some automatically switch displayed register readings to the current live register as well.

Seen some posts for meter's with several sub menus full of various parameters that might help - so your model ? may have more data than you think to help check operation settings. 

If meter is accessible it miight be worth finding out what is available - then checking it next time you notice the IHD error.

If the rate is displayed wrong on the IHD - are any of the other things associated with a rate switch working at the expected time - like say a "countdown" timer  / display.

Chris_b2z

EDF state that -

If your meter sends us readings every half hour, we also use the data to create a chart that gives you a better illustration of your energy use; you can see the chart in MyAccount.

You know the times when immersion & storage heaters switch on/off so just check whether it matches the times of high usage on the daily charts.

Scot_39

That's interesting.

IF the OP has authorised the suppliers access.

Do they show the billed rate or £/p cost against each 1/2 hr slot or just kWh use ?

Do apps like Bright offer it - cost and use - if so - by reading the live cost rate from the meter ?

Even if just kWh - and get the corresponding daily rate 1 and rate 2 readings as well - maybe could add the relevant 7hrs (14 1/2 hourly) when offpeak expected and 34 when peak and compare on normal ihd display day and abnormal to see if can see if they are misaligned.

As on most tariffs - except some EV and agile etc - and even many older billing systems I suspect only use the rate 1 rate 2 registers and not the 1/2 hourly.  And suspect in either case all bopilling works independent of meter.
(Likes of agile - suspect the meter doesn't ever get correct costs based on what people say they see on apps etc  - just 1 or 2 if e7 meter I guess likecany other - so would rely on Octopus info))

[DAPF
They certainly have to for me - because I've never given permission to the electricity supplier (EOn) to read the 1/2 hourly. And if the OP hasn't given EDF permission - either explicitly or perhaps embedded in specific terms and conditions - they I believe shouldn't have accessed 1/2 hourly data to log it either under DAPF - UK govt smart meter specific data protection rules.
AFAIK DAPF daily resolution access still stands as default - there were certainly a few posts last year when people couldn't get on to peak load reduction / shift payment schemes - because suppliers didn't have the access permission for 1/2 hourly - and in some cases needed week(s) after granting to enrol - so missed out]