HMRC PENALTY FOR FORGETTING TO FILL IN SA800 PARTNERSHIP, ADVICE APPRECIATED

Denisefoodstop

Hi, I currently have a problem with HMRC and would really appreciate some advise. 
Me & my partner started a partnership in nov 2022, and in our first tax year Jan 2023 we split the partnership profits and submitted them on our personal tax accounts. We hadn't applied for the partnership UTR until that point (jan 2023) so we didn't fill out the Sa800 as we thought you needed the UTR to complete it.
Once we did recieve the partnership Utr it totally slipped our mind to fill out the Sa800 and stupidly have done the same thing year, so we now have penalties added up to nearly £3000 between us. 
Has anybody got any advice to approach HRMC to try and get them to waive these penalties, I know I've been stupid but I have not deliberately withheld any information from them as we have declared all our income. 
I would really appreciate any advice 
Thank you very much 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Denisefoodstop said:

Hi, I currently have a problem with HMRC and would really appreciate some advise. 
Me & my partner started a partnership in nov 2022, and in our first tax year Jan 2023 we split the partnership profits and submitted them on our personal tax accounts. We hadn't applied for the partnership UTR until that point (jan 2023) so we didn't fill out the Sa800 as we thought you needed the UTR to complete it.
Once we did recieve the partnership Utr it totally slipped our mind to fill out the Sa800 and stupidly have done the same thing year, so we now have penalties added up to nearly £3000 between us. 
Has anybody got any advice to approach HRMC to try and get them to waive these penalties, I know I've been stupid but I have not deliberately withheld any information from them as we have declared all our income. 
I would really appreciate any advice 
Thank you very much 

Sorry but that doesn't make sense.

If you started a partnership in November 2022 that is within the 2022-23 tax year so the first partnership return wouldn't be due until January 2024.

What did you think was needed in January 2023 🤔

Do you mean you added a partnership page to each of your own 2022/23 returns?

[Deleted User]

I am also not understanding how the partnership share of profits were declared on the individual returns. Were they declared on the self-employment pages incorrectly? If so, it is hard to understand how this squares with simple forgetfulness. 

It is also NOT possible to complete the partnership section of individual returns without knowledge of the partnership UTR - it never has been! The online system will show an error message and one cannot proceed! 

It sounds to me that penalties have arisen due to the lack of submission of the partnership return(s) but there may now be issues with the personal returns. 

As described by Dazed and Confused, the dates don’t make sense. Did the partnership commence in November 2021?

Denisefoodstop

Hi, i've now amended sorry you are correct. we started in nov 2021.
So we have submitted the 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 on our personal but forgot the sa800 both times.
I have only become aware of this last week  as they sent a letter in the post as I missed messages on my government gateway. (As far as I was concerned our tax returns were sorted) 
Thanks 

[Deleted User]

Denisefoodstop said:

Hi, i've now amended sorry you are correct. we started in nov 2021.
So we have submitted the 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 on our personal but forgot the sa800 both times.
I have only become aware of this last week  as they sent a letter in the post as I missed messages on my government gateway. (As far as I was concerned our tax returns were sorted) 
Thanks 

How did you submit the individual returns without a partnership reference? 

Where did you declare the turnover, expenses and net profit on the returns?

Did you enter the profit attributable to each partner on the self-employment section?

Denisefoodstop

Yes we started nov 2021.  
We split the profits and put those on our individual returns and where the form mentioned partnership we said awaiting  UTR. 
Thanks for your time. 

Denisefoodstop

We equally split all profits turnover etc 

[Deleted User]

Denisefoodstop said:

Yes we started nov 2021.  
We split the profits and put those on our individual returns and where the form mentioned partnership we said awaiting  UTR. 
Thanks for your time. 

This is all a bit messy I’m afraid and it may be difficult, without seeking professional assistance, to rectify the situation. Unfortunately you have not detailed the income and expenditure of the business anywhere at this stage. 

1) The partnership returns need to be completed yesterday or fines will continue to accrue. They must show full details of the business, income, expenses net profit etc. The profit allocation is also to be included. 

2) Individual returns which have been submitted require amendment if the self-employment section has been completed instead of the partnership section. It may actually require amendment to include the partnership UTR as HMRC may not be able to link with the partnership returns. (Accordingly some of the penalties may relate to the personal tax returns but that’s guessing on my part)

3) Try to negotiate the penalties. 

Honestly- I would engage an accountant. This is pretty rudimentary stuff for one with reasonable knowledge of partnerships. It will also relieve the stress somewhat as, at least, you know it will be rectified. They would also be in a much better position, with respect, to negotiate the penalties. 

Denisefoodstop

I think I did fill in the self employed part instead of partnership, I will have to review it.

I think I will need to see an account, the only reason I did myself is because my partners previous experience with his accountant was a nightmare he was never available and always put late submissions in. 

Thank you 

[Deleted User]

The most important thing is to submit the partnership returns - penalties are levied on the return and also on each partner - they will continue.

eskbanker

Denisefoodstop said:

I think I will need to see an account, the only reason I did myself is because my partners previous experience with his accountant was a nightmare he was never available and always put late submissions in. 

Seems more than a little ironic to be putting late submissions in after declining an accountant on the basis that they put late submissions in!