Help - David Plumbing & Heating

pinkshoes

nikon-user said:

My response after being texted I need to send payment:

What is this payment for please? I have paid the £50 call out charge and you identified the issue (albeit after 2 visits). I can fix or replace the hose myself saving you doing any work.”

The response from the plumber was:

”Hi, yes the emergency company charge to knock on your door and 150.00 per hour and anything in that hour so your outstanding amount is 150.00.”

So at no point before the call out did they say it was £150 an hour as well as the £50 call out?

What they're essentially saying is that the call out fee is actually £200 (£50 to knock on the door and £150 if they step foot inside!) which is not a fair term if they didn't explain that in writing before that.

I'd pay them the £50 which is fairly owed and let them take you to court for any more.

I'd save their messages as it will make them look quite foolish in court.

km1500

the £50 is a call out fee ie just for setting foot in the van and getting to your house

the £150 is for the work done i.e looking at the water on the floor, identifying where the leak came from and then turning the valve off

this took between 0 minutes and 60 minutes therefore the cost is £150

nikon-user

So at no point before the call out did they say it was £150 an hour as well as the £50 call out?

No. If they had I would have put the phone down immediately.

What they're essentially saying is that the call out fee is actually £200 (£50 to knock on the door and £150 if they step foot inside!) which is not a fair term if they didn't explain that in writing before that.

I agree. It’s verging obtaining payment by deception.

I'd pay them the £50 which is fairly owed and let them take you to court for any more.

I'd save their messages as it will make them look quite foolish in court.

I agree, the £50 call out charge is the only fair payment as no other charges was explained to me prior to them knocking on my door. Especially as no work was undertaken.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hi OP

If you just called a number off Google and was not told how the price would be calculated other than the £50 call out, worst case is 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/51

Reasonable price to be paid for a service

(1)This section applies to a contract to supply a service if—

(a)the consumer has not paid a price or other consideration for the service,

(b)the contract does not expressly fix a price or other consideration, and does not say how it is to be fixed, and

(c)anything that is to be treated under section 50 as included in the contract does not fix a price or other consideration either.

(2)In that case the contract is to be treated as including a term that the consumer must pay a reasonable price for the service, and no more.

(3)What is a reasonable price is a question of fact.

Ultimate they'd have to go to small claims to find out what that reasonable price is.

However the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 stipulate that where the trader doesn't give certain information (including the price or how it's to be calculated) you aren't bound by the contract but I don't know what that means in real terms.

My thinking would be if they didn't comply with their obligations would a court award costs? If not it would cost them the £150 to go through the process. 

Personally I'd be tempted to pay them somewhere between £50 and £100, in a way you can prove that payment was made. 

nikon-user

Thank you.

I have been informed of the following:

1. That there is a £50 call out fee (I was informed of this in my initial phone call & I agreed to).
2. That I would be charged at an unspecified rate for any work done, (obviously I always expected to pay for any work done to repair the leak. Not for the time spent investigating (this should be included in the call out fee prior to any quote given to repair the leak?)
3. No engineers time is free.
—

So it comes down to this. 

1. What does a usual call out fee consist of? Does this end when they knock on my door? Does it end after 10 minutes of investigating & prior to a quote given to repair? This part is crucial. Again not made clear to me that I would be charged £150 for just stepping into the house.
2. it was not made clear to me that I would incur a charge (an excessive one at that) for the minimal time it should have spent looking.

They could argue that the work they did was pulling the rotten plinth away to get a hand and torch under the sink base unit, pulling out the washing machine, minor dismantling of the back board of the sink base unit & turning off the isolator tap. All to identify the leak.

My arguments are:

1. Any plumber who is any good would not misdiagnose a such a simple leak in the very first instance (as I obviously did - but then I’m just an NHS employee with a bad back).
2. Why it would take two professional plumbers two visits to spot that the leak wasn’t in fact an undeground main inlet leak but the inlet hose on the back of my washing machine.
3. The £150 asked for is excessive as no work to repair the leak was done.
4. That the washing machine inlet hose should have been spotted as the leak on the first visit within minutes.

km1500

done a bit of googling and it seems a callout fee normally includes the first 30 or 60 minutes worth of work

"Regular plumbers charge between £40 to £60 for their call out fee in contrast to emergency plumbers who charge between £100 and £200. The call out fee usually covers the first 30 to 60 minutes of a job, with every hour thereafter charged between £40 to £60 per hour. Every plumber charges their job differently so make sure to check with your plumber how long their call out fee covers and what their hourly rates are, so that you are able to get an average total cost for the job."

pinkshoes

km1500 said:

done a bit of googling and it seems a callout fee normally includes the first 30 or 60 minutes worth of work

"Regular plumbers charge between £40 to £60 for their call out fee in contrast to emergency plumbers who charge between £100 and £200. The call out fee usually covers the first 30 to 60 minutes of a job, with every hour thereafter charged between £40 to £60 per hour. Every plumber charges their job differently so make sure to check with your plumber how long their call out fee covers and what their hourly rates are, so that you are able to get an average total cost for the job."

Yes, so £50 for turning up and turning off the valve (10 mins work) is reasonable.

The additional £150 is not a fair charge.

I'd be paying the £50 which is fair. 

The company sound unscrupulous! 

nikon-user

Unscrupulous is the word I was looking for.

I have mentioned this fiasco to three friends of mine (an electrician, a carpenter & a gas engineer) and all three of them have said (in more colourful terms) that they are taking the p***. They didn’t even actually fix the leak, just identified it (after 2 visits) and walked away 🤷‍♂️ 

A couple of years ago I called a local plumber for a leaking inlet valve in the toilet cistern. £80 call out + £20 for the replacement part. Still expensive at £100 for 10 minutes work but I expected this cost. 

Maybe I should learn to be plumber 😢

hellsbells1977

I have a rental property and my tenant needed a plumber quickly so called this company. I WOULD AVOID - they charged £50 call out, £13 fee as they had to pay by card and not cash and then £289 per hour x 1.5. The part to fit in the cistern cost £38.50 and was a simple job. The entire job cost £534 which was completely disgraceful. Since this experience I have since found a local plumber. This outfit poses as a local firm but are NOT.

Jumblebumble

nikon-user said:

Dear all, please can someone help.

it concerns the above “company”.

Last week I noticed water on my kitchen floor. I called the above company that looking back, on the internet looks a bit suspect (agency?). They aren’t your typical “local plumber”. So anyway, I called them, explained the situation & they agreed to visit Saturday morning. I asked if there was a call out charge, to which they said, “yes, it’s £50.” So I agreed to that (seems fairly standard).

Visited, here for about 10 minutes, said I had an underground leak and asked if I had home insurance. I said yes. I was told he would text me back with a quote. He texted back a quote of £1040 but also asked if it was OK to come back with another engineer/plumber. I said “yes, OK”.

He came back with another (seemingly more experienced plumber). Again here for about 10 minutes only to be told that it wasn’t an underground leak but was a simple case of a leaking washing machine inlet hose (something I thought would have been easily identified by any competent plumber on the first visit).

He asked me to text him in 24 hrs to tell him if it worked (leak had stopped), which I did. He texted me back saying he needs to collect £150 from me, which is for any time spent after the call out charge. 

I rightly or wrongly have a bit of a problem with this.

1. A call out charge and 10 minutes to identify a leak with no work carried seems fair to me. To add on £150 (per hour) seems a little excessive to me. No actual work to repair the leak was done.

Am I liable to pay, or at least negotiate? I know many trades people and the call out charge, if one is applied, usually means a call out + a quick diagnosis & no work undertaken.

Thank you. Please don’t roast me, it just seems a bit excessive.

By Coincidence I have jut been watching an old Rogue Traders on You tube abut a similar aggregator
He alleged that the middle man company take 50% of the job as commission