Courier company my friend used damaged their item and refusing to payout

john01269

Hi,

I have a friend that owns a business and he purchased an item from ebay for over £2,000. It was a used diesel tank so the seller removed as much of the diesel as he could before it got picked up, the seller did not organised the courier company, my friend who purchased the item organised that, he wrote to the courier company asking for a quote on a used diesel tank, the courier company gave him a quote and because it was far cheaper than the other companies quoted, he went with that company, that company picked it up, took it to their depo and then contacted my friend saying their is diesel in the tank which is spilling out of the tank and they are now not allowed to take it any further due to this, we found out in the end that it had been dropped and reason for the leak. They are refusing to pay out because they said they was not told that there was any diesel in it even though he had a quote for a used diesel tank and a customer is not to know the rules of what can be taken or what not, the courier company that collected it from the seller should have made the decision if it was safe to carrier or not there and then. They are claiming there was far more diesel in it than the seller said there was, at end of day we are in a living cost crisis, the seller is not going to leave huge amounts of diesel in the tank and he made sure he got out as much of the diesel he could before it got picked up, so the courier company is making false allegations to try to put the blame onto my friend and to make out it's his fault.

As my friends company that he owns paid for the courier to deliver the item and it was going to be used for the company, what producers can be taken to now escalate this issue, would it have to go through a small claims court or is there anything like the financial ombudsman that can be used to try and resolve this issue as the item has been damaged by them and as mentioned if it should have not been collected in the first place due to diesel in the tank, then they should have not picked it up in the first place and told him there and then that they can't pick it up or deliver it.

Spoonie_Turtle

john01269 said:

… a customer is not to know the rules of what can be taken or what not, the courier company that collected it from the seller should have made the decision if it was safe to carrier or not there and then. 

That's not correct.  He would have had to agree to the terms and conditions when booking the courier, which include their terms for compensation and what they will or won't transport.  It is the customer's responsibility to check the T&Cs before agreeing to them.

soolin

Firstly this is a B2B purchase (business to business) so your friend doesn't have consumer rights per se. 

I'm sure others will advise better, but firstly did the friend pay extra to have this fully insured- and did they 'guarantee' the engine was free of oil, or just assume it was as many couriers wont transport engines if they contain any oil. If item was fully insured and if the correct declaration was made then go back to the courier with proof.

However the issue here will be that there is no guarantee how well seller packed the item , the courier no doubt had strict packaging guidelines so finding out if they were complied with might be a good place to start.

john01269

Spoonie_Turtle said:

john01269 said:

… a customer is not to know the rules of what can be taken or what not, the courier company that collected it from the seller should have made the decision if it was safe to carrier or not there and then. 

That's not correct.  He would have had to agree to the terms and conditions when booking the courier, which include their terms for compensation and what they will or won't transport.  It is the customer's responsibility to check the T&Cs before agreeing to them.

The thing is he asked the company for a quote where he mentioned it was a second hand diesel tank (a tank to store diesel and second hand meaning it may have a little remnants of diesel still in it), they quoted him for it, there was no mention of any terms and conditions at the time, if you get quoted for so and so item you believe then that they are accepting that the item is fine to collect and transport. The company did not mention it was not allowed to be collected as he asked for the quote by email as they said, if it was not ok to delivery they they should have mentioned that in the email rather than quote him. It was only once they damaged the item they made out it was something they should have not taken making out it was full of diesel when it only had remnants in it, less than a cup full. They took it to the depo and looks like it was dropped from the pallet using a forklift and therefore it hit the ground and cracked the bottom of the tank.

km1500

as with most couriers there probably was a small amount if compensation for loss or damage included in the price (with some things excluded), and probably an option to take insurance for additional cover up to a maximum value

diesel is a hazardous material the tank should have been completely free of it (eg steam cleaned)

was this the case here?

Vectis

Just because the tank was second-hand doesn't mean you or your friend can make the assumption that the courier should have known there would be fuel in it. It should have been emptied and cleaned, and the courier would expect it to be.

Is there any chance that your friend could collect it themselves from the depot? Depends, I guess, on what you mean exactly by diesel tank - a tank for a car, for instance, is very different to a large, industrial storage tank.

BargainJunky

A quick search on completed listings on Ebay reveal that it is a 40,000 litre diesel tank.

I am no expert but I would think that considering the size etc a specialist courier company would have needed rather than the cheapest as all sorts of regulations would have had to be met.

I do not know how he would stand legally but if I were in his shoes I would go down the route that they picked the item up so accepted it for carriage - they then damaged it causing the residual contents to leak - had they not dropped it there would not have been an issue.  

soolin

BargainJunky said:

A quick search on completed listings on Ebay reveal that it is a 40,000 litre diesel tank.

I am no expert but I would think that considering the size etc a specialist courier company would have needed rather than the cheapest as all sorts of regulations would have had to be met.

I do not know how he would stand legally but if I were in his shoes I would go down the route that they picked the item up so accepted it for carriage - they then damaged it causing the residual contents to leak - had they not dropped it there would not have been an issue.  

This is complicated due to the fact that it was buyer that arranged the courier, but seller who packed it. If the tank was damaged then buyer would have to show that it was packed (or the equivalent pallet requirements) to the standard required by the courier and adequately insured. Then they would still have the issue as to whether or not the tank with oil was an ‘allowed’ item and declared correctly for compensation against damage. 

If it is that one you refer to then seller makes no claim at all about it being fully emptied, and in fact in the OP it says ' They are claiming there was far more diesel in it than the seller said there was' which implies seller even said there would be 'some' oil in it. OP also suggests that buyer accepts there was oil in it- so would need to check whether this would invalidate any compensation claim, which I have a horrible inkling it will. 

At that point I fear there is nothing the buyer can then do as they are unlikely to be able to make a claim against a courier if they transported something which was  against the couriers terms, nor do they have any claim against the seller on a collected item. The fact that this is a B2B doesn't help- unless there is some other contractual agreement between the seller and buyer that we are unaware of.

martindow

I am afraid I agree that their is not going to be a successful insurance claim here.  As it was worth £2000, is it possible to repair?  I can imagine that a patch could be welded on to the damaged area for a few hundred pounds, so the loss could be less than the price paid (I'm sure a welder would want it emptied and cleaned first!).  For a functional item like this the appearance of the tank is not important.

GadgetGuru

How do you know it was damaged by the courier? Have they admit this or is it your assumption?

BargainJunky

soolin said:

BargainJunky said:

A quick search on completed listings on Ebay reveal that it is a 40,000 litre diesel tank.

I am no expert but I would think that considering the size etc a specialist courier company would have needed rather than the cheapest as all sorts of regulations would have had to be met.

I do not know how he would stand legally but if I were in his shoes I would go down the route that they picked the item up so accepted it for carriage - they then damaged it causing the residual contents to leak - had they not dropped it there would not have been an issue.  

This is complicated due to the fact that it was buyer that arranged the courier, but seller who packed it. If the tank was damaged then buyer would have to show that it was packed (or the equivalent pallet requirements) to the standard required by the courier and adequately insured. Then they would still have the issue as to whether or not the tank with oil was an ‘allowed’ item and declared correctly for compensation against damage. 

If it is that one you refer to then seller makes no claim at all about it being fully emptied, and in fact in the OP it says ' They are claiming there was far more diesel in it than the seller said there was' which implies seller even said there would be 'some' oil in it. OP also suggests that buyer accepts there was oil in it- so would need to check whether this would invalidate any compensation claim, which I have a horrible inkling it will. 

At that point I fear there is nothing the buyer can then do as they are unlikely to be able to make a claim against a courier if they transported something which was  against the couriers terms, nor do they have any claim against the seller on a collected item. The fact that this is a B2B doesn't help- unless there is some other contractual agreement between the seller and buyer that we are unaware of.

A total nightmare.