Council sublet leisure carpark

Tazman1969

At the top of either page 75 or page 175 of the Parking in the News / Media thread, I deliberately gathered links about similar situations (ready for FOIs & complaints when I'm bored one day!).

Found this many thanks it was on page 75, it seems that local authorities still go ahead with ANPR anyway? But they don't use private parking operators. 

Can someone please help me with the copy of the letter posted by 1505grandad is still relevant as passing this on to the reporter, they seem genuinely interested 🙏 

Many thanks 

Coupon-mad

Yes it is considered still to be the Government's position.  I found a FOI documented on WhatDoTheyKnow last year, where the DLUHC (who are responsible for private parking rules) confirmed that their position is still as per the Robert Goodwill letter.  The FOI that I found was about B&HCC using One Parking Solution (but not ANPR) in Brighton.

fisherjim

A council cannot operate their car parks using ANPR, they can use them for Bus lane / Bus stops / Cycle Lanes / Red Routes / School Zig Zag enforcement but not off street parking!

The cameras used in the above must be approved devices also a PPC by default being unregulated cannot be using approved devices.

It comes under the Secretary of States Office and the withdrawal of access to DVLA data base can be imposed for violation of the above ruling, this happened in High Wycombe who went it alone and were banned from obtaining keeper details until all their newly installed car park ANPR systems were disabled:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions

https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/15116767.wycombe-district-council-refuse-to-accept-responsibility-for-anpr-failures/

 

Tazman1969

Nort a bad article, gets the point across & mentioned the MSE website. 
Also the fact that the council has not replied to Myself or the reporter, and have blocked of the Leisure centre carpark.....????? 

https://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/news/people/parking-enforcement-at-banbury-sports-centre-which-has-fined-hundreds-of-motorists-are-illegal-claims-driver-4599746

Coupon-mad

Tazman1969 said:

Nort a bad article, gets the point across & mentioned the MSE website. 
Also the fact that the council has not replied to Myself or the reporter, and have blocked of the Leisure centre carpark.....????? 

https://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/news/people/parking-enforcement-at-banbury-sports-centre-which-has-fined-hundreds-of-motorists-are-illegal-claims-driver-4599746

Power to your elbow!

"The Banbury Guardian asked Cherwell District Council two weeks ago to clarify the status of the land and whether it believes the ANPR system contracted by Legacy Leisure – which runs the sports centre for the council under a lease – is legal. We have not yet received a response."

ParkingMad

Coupon-mad said:

Yes it is considered still to be the Government's position.  I found a FOI documented on WhatDoTheyKnow last year, where the DLUHC (who are responsible for private parking rules) confirmed that their position is still as per the Robert Goodwill letter.  The FOI that I found was about B&HCC using One Parking Solution (but not ANPR) in Brighton.

Here is the letter from DLUHC to the DVLA:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/correspondence_between_the_dvla/response/2280173/attach/5/FOIR10376%20DVLA%20letter%20on%20LA%20parking%20enforcement.pdf?


Link to the FOI request:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/correspondence_between_the_dvla#incoming-2518197

Tazman1969

So I have had a response firm the Council basically saying that it's got nothing to do with them and as it's Sub let the agents can do what they want. 
The fact is the agents do not own the land ,it still belongs to the Council, so not relevant land or does the Subletting remove the statutory conditions?
Any advice would be much appreciated as feeling that being fobbed off and need  looking into a little bit more.

LDast

It will depend on how PoFA 3(1)(b) is interpreted:

3 (1) In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than-

(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority.

3 (2) In sub-paragraph (1)(b)—

• “parking place” has the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;

• “traffic authority” means each of the following—

(e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;

If the land is subleased, is that the same as provided whether it is controlled or not?

If the land is subleased, is that the same as provided whether it is controlled or not?

Trainerman

LDast said:

It will depend on how PoFA 3(1)(b) is interpreted:

3 (1) In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than-

(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority.

3 (2) In sub-paragraph (1)(b)—

• “parking place” has the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;

• “traffic authority” means each of the following—

(e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;

If the land is subleased, is that the same as provided whether it is controlled or not?

If the land is subleased, is that the same as provided whether it is controlled or not?

I am not a 'legal', but my feeling is that the answer is 'no'. The Council may own it but they have sublet it to a body who happen to allow it to be a carpark. No doubt the lessee could stop doing that if they chose.

Gr1pr

The infamous car park in Chorlton Square near the centre ,  near Stockport , is council owned ( Tameside council I believe. ) but was leased off to some company or other running it as Chorlton precinct, , Excel parking have enforced on it for probably over a decade but I believe that its being redeveloped now 

Some of the Metrolink tram sites for TfGM aren't council owned like Derker which comes under either Oldham or Rochdale council, but is monitored by Ocean parking 

So I suppose that when councils lease off the non relevant land then private parking companies do operate 

I would suggest that the lessee Legacy Leisure are the ones who contracted with Smart parking, Smart parking never comply with POFA anyway, but do subscribe to the BPA AOS members list so must abide by their code of practice, currently version 9