Abolished N.I - state pension system

westv

Where can I see those figures from an official source?

QrizB

BlackKnightMonty said:

This doesn’t look sustainable to me longer term. With less than half of UK households making a NET tax contribution after benefits received.

What exactly makes you think it's not sustainable?

BlackKnightMonty

westv said:

Where can I see those figures from an official source?

The figures/chart are from the ONS:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/previousReleases

QrizB said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

This doesn’t look sustainable to me longer term. With less than half of UK households making a NET tax contribution after benefits received.

What exactly makes you think it's not sustainable?

Because we are borrowing more and more to sustain it.

SouthCoastBoy

Perhaps the benefits should be taxable

BlackKnightMonty

SouthCoastBoy said:

Perhaps the benefits should be taxable

They are. This calculation considers all taxes (like VAT), and all direct/indirect/benefits in kind.

Grumpy_chap

SouthCoastBoy said:

Perhaps the benefits should be taxable

They are.  Treated as income.
Which, to some extent, counters those that comment that it is unfair that State Pension may be taxable...

SouthCoastBoy

There are a lot of benefits that are not taxable, https://www.gov.uk/income-tax/taxfree-and-taxable-state-benefits

QrizB

BlackKnightMonty said:

QrizB said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

This doesn’t look sustainable to me longer term. With less than half of UK households making a NET tax contribution after benefits received.

What exactly makes you think it's not sustainable?

Because we are borrowing more and more to sustain it.

What makes you think that there's a causal link between those two sets of numbers?

Sure it makes a good talking point in the pub or on this forum, but where's your evidence?

BlackKnightMonty

QrizB said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

QrizB said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

This doesn’t look sustainable to me longer term. With less than half of UK households making a NET tax contribution after benefits received.

What exactly makes you think it's not sustainable?

Because we are borrowing more and more to sustain it.

What makes you think that there's a causal link between those two sets of numbers?

Sure it makes a good talking point in the pub or on this forum, but where's your evidence?

You can see the impact on the covid welfare spike on debt, and the increased % net receivers whilst furlough was undertaken. Given welfare as a % of GDP is forcast to rise; levels of debt overall will rise.

https://obr.uk/docs/dlm_uploads/E03057758_OBR_EFO-March-2024_Web-AccessibleFinal.pdf

BlackKnightMonty

SouthCoastBoy said:

There are a lot of benefits that are not taxable, https://www.gov.uk/income-tax/taxfree-and-taxable-state-benefits

The ONS analysis considers ALL taxes (direct and indirect) as well as ALL benefits (direct, benefits in kind.). It’s detailed analysis, you can see a list of what is covered here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/datasets/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincomefinancialyearending2014/financialyearending2022/etbreferencetablesfye2022correction.xlsx