Consumer Police. See if you can get your heads around this?

Ron1e

twopenny said:

Reading the advert I wouldn't have gone near him.
We don't need reviews makes me suspicious. The word salivate shows ignorance of others opinion. And no advertising? Sounds reasonable but only if you have faith in your product, not financial.

Sounds like he's keeping his head down for some reason. I guess you found that reason.

I doubt he'd sue you. It would cost, it would be his word against yours.
Do you have a screenshot of the advert?
Any t&c, further description on his page?

I don't have screenshot, I don't know how to take one. I'iipaste the ad though.

Without doubt, these are some of the best amps I've made in almost 50 years of being an artisan in this field. Concentrating on longevity, I've managed to assemble such a collection of heavyweight components, there's a cast-iron certainty that this range will outlast many an expensive offering from whatever manufacturer with a predicted life well in excess of 20 years - all without ritual servicing. Make no mistake, these are 'forever' amps and standing them up against virtually anything I've come across, they have a certain style and solidity across the board such as has never been heard to date. Unique in that we don't need dealerships to punt them, we don't need magazine reviews for folks to salivate over and we don't need a massive advertising budget - the cost of which is loaded onto the product - all we ask is your acceptance of our offer to try these amplifiers in your own system, your own time and with your own music - all without risk to you should you decide otherwise. Priced at £4560 (now amended after accurate costings) per pair, somewhat more attractive than the competition, we'll be taking orders shortly. Looking forward to hearing from you

Ron1e

I don't know how to do screenshots, this is the ad though.

Without doubt, these are some of the best amps I've made in almost 50 years of being an artisan in this field. Concentrating on longevity, I've managed to assemble such a collection of heavyweight components, there's a cast-iron certainty that this range will outlast many an expensive offering from whatever manufacturer with a predicted life well in excess of 20 years - all without ritual servicing. Make no mistake, these are 'forever' amps and standing them up against virtually anything I've come across, they have a certain style and solidity across the board such as has never been heard to date. Unique in that we don't need dealerships to punt them, we don't need magazine reviews for folks to salivate over and we don't need a massive advertising budget - the cost of which is loaded onto the product - all we ask is your acceptance of our offer to try these amplifiers in your own system, your own time and with your own music - all without risk to you should you decide otherwise. Priced at £4560 (now amended after accurate costings) per pair, somewhat more attractive than the competition, we'll be taking orders shortly. Looking forward to hearing from you

photome

can you post a link to his website/facebook page

Does he have any t and c listed anywhere or is he just selling amps out of his shed with no comeback 

Tucosalamanca

I have to ask, why on earth you would buy an amplifier listed on Facebook for over £4,000?
No demonstration facilities - a huge red flag, at that point, you know that they're not legit.
Auditioning is literally the basis for the entire industry.
What have they been using for research and testing in the workshop?

How has your hi-fi journey been to this point? Are you running similar quality sources and speakers?
A £4,000 amp suggests a system in excess of £10k, possibly far more.

There's some wonderful kit at this price point, both new and used.
Did you not visit a reputable HI-FI dealer and compare any number of systems/combinations before making the purchase? Or even arrange to have a van full of goodies brought to your home for audition?
Have you listened to any other equipment from this supplier, perhaps at a friend's home, recording studio or at a hi-fi show?

I've been an enthusiast for a long time, this is an old scam (pre internet these 'ads' would pop up in the listings columns). I can't believe people are still falling for it in 2024. Quite a remarkable story!

Ron1e

Yes I did previously have an amplifier from this guy and it was very good.However I had to return it because of conformity issues and was offered a full refund. Then I accepted his offer to try these. This guys been in business a long time and has a good reputation. That's why I'm shocked with his response. He just wants to come out of this at my expense. I've been an hi-fi enthusiast for more then 40 years, bought loads of stuff online and returned it, no problem.. He emailed me this morning with what he says is his final offer. He will sell it for £2500 but still offer me £3500.00 he says he's taking a loss himself. This is a long story, but he does have problem with truth, there is no doubt about that.

It goes to court next week. I thought I would ask  the learned forum members what they think my chances are.

Ron1e

photome said:

can you post a link to his website/facebook page

Does he have any t and c listed anywhere or is he just selling amps out of his shed with no comeback 

The only terms and conditions are, try them for yourself, if you’re not happy we offer a 60 day rock solid no quibble money back guarantee, that’s fine. But when you accept his  offer, he throws the kitchen sink at it with anything he can think of not to give you full refund. 

I'll tell you what my view is, Either he has a basic lack of understanding how the UK consumer law works, or he chooses to ignore it. He knows he's in the wrong.
He broke the law when he sold me the first amplifier I bought, that’s why he offered me a full refund, even though this was some months after. And not he's breaking law now by the way he responding to this..

I'm self employed working in retail, and you don't want to give people money back, because it's your money. But retail doesn't work like that, sometimes you just have to take on the chin and move on.
The person I'm dealing with is a stubborn old !!!!!! and he's happy to refund me as long as he comes out of this with a profit.

Ron1e

Tucosalamanca said:

I have to ask, why on earth you would buy an amplifier listed on Facebook for over £4,000?
No demonstration facilities - a huge red flag, at that point, you know that they're not legit.
Auditioning is literally the basis for the entire industry.
What have they been using for research and testing in the workshop?

How has your hi-fi journey been to this point? Are you running similar quality sources and speakers?
A £4,000 amp suggests a system in excess of £10k, possibly far more.

There's some wonderful kit at this price point, both new and used.
Did you not visit a reputable HI-FI dealer and compare any number of systems/combinations before making the purchase? Or even arrange to have a van full of goodies brought to your home for audition?
Have you listened to any other equipment from this supplier, perhaps at a friend's home, recording studio or at a hi-fi show?

I've been an enthusiast for a long time, this is an old scam (pre internet these 'ads' would pop up in the listings columns). I can't believe people are still falling for it in 2024. Quite a remarkable story!

You say why would I buy an amplifier listed on Facebook for over £4000.00. With no demonstration facilities?
 It's a good question, and the answer is because, he invited me to try these in my own system, in my own time, with my own music. ALL WITHOUT RISK SHOULD I DECIDE OTHERWISE.
As a long standing, and I thought reputable business, I took him at his word.
Clearly I made a mistake. It's easy to be wise after the event. But one needs to remember.
IT'S THE EVENT THAT PROVIDES THE WISDOM..

Grumpy_chap

Ron1e said:

It goes to court next week. I thought I would ask  the learned forum members what they think my chances are.

Even if you are successful in your claim, does the trader have the funds to pay out?

Ron1e said:

He broke the law when he sold me the first amplifier I bought, that’s why he offered me a full refund, even though this was some months after. And not he's breaking law now by the way he responding to this..

Are you saying that you have purchased two amplifiers from this trader and this is the second that has been a problem?

Ron1e said:

The only terms and conditions are, try them for yourself, if you’re not happy we offer a 60 day rock solid no quibble money back guarantee, that’s fine. But when you accept his  offer, he throws the kitchen sink at it with anything he can think of not to give you full refund. 

I'll tell you what my view is, Either he has a basic lack of understanding how the UK consumer law works, or he chooses to ignore it.

AIUI, offers like "60 day trial" are not covered under Consumer Rights, but under contract so there can be any terms & conditions attached to that offer.  Is there anything at all on the website that gives more detail other than the headline you are quoting?
Can you link the site, or give the name of the company so that others can locate the site?

Ron1e

Thanks thanks for your response Grumpy Chap.

Yes, he does have the money, don't forget he has already offered £3500.00.

Yes, I have purchased an amplifier previously, I won't go into that here, but there were  conformity and legality issues. A full refund was offered and accepted. I was then invited to try the newer model, which I did. It didn't meet my expectations so I returned it,  fully expecting a Rock sold, no quibble money back guarantee like it says on his website.

I Know the terms he offers are not covered under the consumer rights, they are an addition to them.
Lunatic has the name of the company, I don't really want post it on here while the court case is on going.

There are no terms or conditions on his website or his Facebook page other than this.
His terms are crystal clear., just try them in your own time, RISK FREE or your money back.

Put yourself in my position. Let’s say Curry's advertise a telly on their website the way these goods have advertised. You go in store, buy the tv, and take back in 5 days later. In perfect condition, will all the packaging etc. Then they say, I'm sorry but the sale was final and binding, we are not giving a refund.

When you question this, they change tack and then say, sorry, we are giving you a refund because it was made to your precise wisher. When you question that, three weeks after you return the the they say.
Ok, we will refund your purchase price, less £500.00 because we’ve inspected it and you have tampered with it and there is charge of  £500 to make it good. And if you don't accept our  offer will counter sue you.
The latest offer is to sell it for you as second goods.

Thats the situation I'm in.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

Thanks for the message, the website does indeed offer the 60 days moneyback guarantee described as no quibbles with no terms I can see and that guarantee is along side an offer to visit them in person by appointment so, to my reading, should apply regardless of whether you buy through their website or "in store", as it were. 

Looking at the site there is very little in the way of T&Cs, despite being able to place a website order I couldn't see the usual "Returns" page or "Terms and Conditions" page to say anything about the right to cancel or indeed anything else about this guarantee.

To add to the point above about buying after seeing Facebook ad, the website looks nice, has the company address, perhaps a little basic but small businesses don't always have the money or knowhow to set up fancy sites, it certainly doesn't look like a "scam" website.

OP have they refunded you anything yet? I think best bet is accept whatever they are offering and then chase the rest. Did you pay by credit card by any chance?