Choosing an EV tariff.

Keep_pedalling

Gerry1 said:

You'll get a shock when you have to charge away from home.  Sainsbury's and Waitrose charge an eye watering 85p/kWh which is about twice the marginal cost of using petrol.

Presumably Waitrose also charge the parking fee as well.  I shan't be getting a pure EV anytime soon !

Sainsbury’s and Waitrose don’t charge anything to charge they don’t run the charge points and don’t collect the revenue. They don’t charge you for parking while you charge either. 

The vast majority of us EV drivers won’t get a shock when charging on the road as we are well aware of the costs in the first place. 

MWT

Keep_pedalling said:

Sainsbury’s and Waitrose don’t charge anything to charge they don’t run the charge points and don’t collect the revenue. They don’t charge you for parking while you charge either. 

... actually my local Sainsbury's still offers free 22kW chargers, so even better

Gerry1

Keep_pedalling said:

Gerry1 said:

You'll get a shock when you have to charge away from home.  Sainsbury's and Waitrose charge an eye watering 85p/kWh which is about twice the marginal cost of using petrol.

Presumably Waitrose also charge the parking fee as well.  I shan't be getting a pure EV anytime soon !

Sainsbury’s and Waitrose don’t charge anything to charge they don’t run the charge points and don’t collect the revenue. They don’t charge you for parking while you charge either.

Pure semantics.

I really don't care two hoots whether the money goes to Shell or Waitrose, it would still cost me 85p/kWh, and that's double what filling up with petrol would cost.

I haven't seen any waivers about the parking charges but I'll have a look at the charging instructions.

jhobson

jhobson said:

FreeBear said:

Would be handy if the daytime & charging rates were displayed (and perhaps compare against Octopus Agile).

Got myself a charger installed, but as EV usage is minimal at present, there is no advantage to moving away from the Tracker tariff.

Direct comparison with Octopus Agile would be a bit challenging as you can't know what the rates are in advance as they change every half an hour, based on the wholesale price of energy.

Having given this a bit more thought, you can get a rough idea by taking the averages published by Octopus here https://agile.octopushome.net/historical-data

Plugging the average over the last 6 months (17.81p kWH) into the comparison tariff with a standing charge of 47.5p you get this result with the default parameters in my spreadsheet (3.5 mile kWH, 8,000 miles driven, 90% charging at home, 7,500 kWH total usage, 13% already off peak and 750kWh p.a. load shifted)


This suggests that Agile can be more cost effective than the standard EV rates (UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES). The *average* cost per kWH calculated by doing this would be 18p on Agile compared to 22p on Intelligent Octopus Go

However, (and it is a BIG however) it is important to understand the way that Agile works.

Agile Rates vary by the half hour and can, in theory at least, be as high as 100p kWH. The half hourly rates for East Midlands have been higher than the flexible Octopus rate of 28.44p kWH in 13% of the half hour slots over the last 6 months with a maximum rate of 67.16p kWH.

Between 16:30 to 19:00 for example you would have paid an average of about 36p a kWh since 10/9/23. By contrast there have been 138 half hour slots (1.6% of all slots) over that period where the cost has been negative by a few pence (max -6.93p) so they were actually paying Agile customers to use electricity.

It is also important to realise that history isn't necessarily a reliable guide to future costs.

In order to maximise the benefit here you would have to time shift your usage to avoid those peaks (which is, after all, the point of Agile), and you have to be prepared to tolerate the risk that some of your consumption could be charged at about 4 times the price cap if, say, global events suddenly took a turn for the worse - e.g. they suddenly shut the Suez canal. Mind you if that happened then the price cap would shift upwards next quarter too.

jhobson

 it would still cost me 85p/kWh, and that's double what filling up with petrol would cost.

Yes, for a small percentage of your charging requirements.

Unless you are regularly driving round trips of 250 miles or more, with a modern EV there is no reason to pay this level of pricing more than once in a while. I'm driving to London from NW England next week so I will top up at that kind of rate on the way down and on the way back. This will be my first public charges since July 2023. I'll be driving to Devon in the Summer too so I will have to use a public charger again. Shock horror! 😂

In fact with a little preparation you could be getting almost all of your "fuel" at a cost of 2p a mile compared to about 12p a mile for an ICE petrol car so you would not be not paying double what using petrol would, you'd be paying about 20% of the cost of filling up with petrol.

Public charging is relatively expensive but it is used only exceptionally by most EV drivers.

Petriix

My last bill averaged 12.78p per kWh with much of the off-peak usage being home consumption. I've found that I can often get a couple of extra hours of the cheap rate in the mornings which is great for drying a load of washing. With just a small amount of load-shifting, Intelligent Octopus Go tends to work out cheapest for most people with 'normal' usage. 

I have solar but no battery and, though I previously tried to utilise as much of my own generation as possible, I now happily export it at 15p per kWh. 

Gerry1

Gerry1 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Gerry1 said:

You'll get a shock when you have to charge away from home.  Sainsbury's and Waitrose charge an eye watering 85p/kWh which is about twice the marginal cost of using petrol.

Presumably Waitrose also charge the parking fee as well.  I shan't be getting a pure EV anytime soon !

Sainsbury’s and Waitrose don’t charge anything to charge they don’t run the charge points and don’t collect the revenue. They don’t charge you for parking while you charge either.

Pure semantics.

I really don't care two hoots whether the money goes to Shell or Waitrose, it would still cost me 85p/kWh, and that's double what filling up with petrol would cost.

I haven't seen any waivers about the parking charges but I'll have a look at the charging instructions.

Shell have confirmed that parking  charges DO apply.  So if I had an EV and charged at my local Waitrose I'd have to pay £2 for parking plus a 35p roaming fee plus 85p/kWh, plus £70 if charging takes more than two hours.

IMHO pure EVs are very much in their infancy.  If and when a BEV costs no more to buy than an ICE, can recharge at a public charge point in 5 minutes and the electricity there costs no more than petrol, then I'll buy one.

Oh, add in the ability to pay with cash/card but without needing an account, proprietary card or app.

In the meantime I'll get the best of both worlds with my self charging hybrid.

Keep_pedalling

Gerry1 said:

Gerry1 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Gerry1 said:

You'll get a shock when you have to charge away from home.  Sainsbury's and Waitrose charge an eye watering 85p/kWh which is about twice the marginal cost of using petrol.

Presumably Waitrose also charge the parking fee as well.  I shan't be getting a pure EV anytime soon !

Sainsbury’s and Waitrose don’t charge anything to charge they don’t run the charge points and don’t collect the revenue. They don’t charge you for parking while you charge either.

Pure semantics.

I really don't care two hoots whether the money goes to Shell or Waitrose, it would still cost me 85p/kWh, and that's double what filling up with petrol would cost.

I haven't seen any waivers about the parking charges but I'll have a look at the charging instructions.

Shell have confirmed that parking  charges DO apply.  So if I had an EV and charged at my local Waitrose I'd have to pay £2 for parking plus a 35p roaming fee plus 85p/kWh, plus £70 if charging takes more than two hours.

IMHO pure EVs are very much in their infancy.  If and when a BEV costs no more to buy than an ICE, can recharge at a public charge point in 5 minutes and the electricity there costs no more than petrol, then I'll buy one.

Oh, add in the ability to pay with cash/card but without needing an account, proprietary card or app.

In the meantime I'll get the best of both worlds with my self charging hybrid.

Gerry1 said:

Gerry1 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Gerry1 said:

You'll get a shock when you have to charge away from home.  Sainsbury's and Waitrose charge an eye watering 85p/kWh which is about twice the marginal cost of using petrol.

Presumably Waitrose also charge the parking fee as well.  I shan't be getting a pure EV anytime soon !

Sainsbury’s and Waitrose don’t charge anything to charge they don’t run the charge points and don’t collect the revenue. They don’t charge you for parking while you charge either.

Pure semantics.

I really don't care two hoots whether the money goes to Shell or Waitrose, it would still cost me 85p/kWh, and that's double what filling up with petrol would cost.

I haven't seen any waivers about the parking charges but I'll have a look at the charging instructions.

Shell have confirmed that parking  charges DO apply.  So if I had an EV and charged at my local Waitrose I'd have to pay £2 for parking plus a 35p roaming fee plus 85p/kWh, plus £70 if charging takes more than two hours.

I don’t charge at my local Waitrose as I charge at home, but there are no parking charges associated with the charging bays. I would not pay roaming charges either because In would use my credit card or Octopus Electroverse.  Charging on rapids should take no longer than 30 mins, the £70 penalty is discourage idiots blocking a charger for longer than they need. 

IMHO pure EVs are very much in their infancy.  If and when a BEV costs no more to buy than an ICE, can recharge at a public charge point in 5 minutes and the electricity there costs no more than petrol, then I'll buy one.

Oh, add in the ability to pay with cash/card but without needing an account, proprietary card or app.

In the meantime I'll get the best of both worlds with my self charging hybrid.

All modern charge points take credit / debit cards, but they will never take cash. 

Reed_Richards

Gerry1 said

IMHO pure EVs are very much in their infancy.  If and when a BEV costs no more to buy than an ICE, can recharge at a public charge point in 5 minutes and the electricity there costs no more than petrol, then I'll buy one.

Oh, add in the ability to pay with cash/card but without needing an account, proprietary card or app.

Last September I bought an electric Vauxhall Mokka, a few months old, for much the same price as the equivalent ICE.  I have only ever needed to fuel it once away from home, I added a quarter of a "tank" and that took about 12 minutes.  I paid with a regular credit card and although that top-up was more expensive than petrol (x2?), my average fuel cost is far less because I charge overnight at home on cheap-rate electricity.  I also get the benefit of this cheap electricity for anything else I can use it for, my hot water for example.  

Gerry1

@Keep_pedalling

Keep_pedalling said:

I don’t charge at my local Waitrose as I charge at home, but there are no parking charges associated with the charging bays.

Your Waitrose May Vary.

Waitrose charge for parking at locations where they think they can get away with it; as repeatedly stated, mine does charge, even on bank holidays.

Keep_pedalling said:

Charging on rapids should take no longer than 30 mins

Using a Shell 22kW charger, you can charge a 72kWh battery in 30 minutes?  I don't think so !  🤔

Keep_pedalling said:

the £70 penalty is discourage idiots blocking a charger for longer than they need.

Nope, that applies to all car park users.  It's to make sure spaces are always available for shoppers, and it was there before any chargers were installed.  Unfortunately it means you can't top up by 44kWh or more without being stung by £70 on top of the rip-off electricity price.  😡