Possible sanction

Beckz1205

I was supposed to have a telephone appointment with my work coach on Tuesday just gone and my advisor never rang me. This appointment was agreed to be a telephone appointment by my work coach at my last meeting as it is more convenient for me currently. Today I have received a letter saying I didn’t attend my meeting and if I don’t provide a good reason as to why by 12/03/24 I’ll get a sanction! I am so angry as this is my work coach’s fault as I believe she didn’t note that this was a telephone appointment as agreed and not a face to face appointment. She has written at the top of my appointment letter “telephone appointment” so is this sufficient proof that I in-fact haven’t just not turned up to my appointment? I have never missed an appointment before either. 

Alice_Holt

Beckz1205 said:

I was supposed to have a telephone appointment with my work coach on Tuesday just gone and my advisor never rang me. This appointment was agreed to be a telephone appointment by my work coach at my last meeting as it is more convenient for me currently. Today I have received a letter saying I didn’t attend my meeting and if I don’t provide a good reason as to why by 12/03/24 I’ll get a sanction! I am so angry as this is my work coach’s fault as I believe she didn’t note that this was a telephone appointment as agreed and not a face to face appointment. She has written at the top of my appointment letter “telephone appointment” so is this sufficient proof that I in-fact haven’t just not turned up to my appointment? I have never missed an appointment before either. 

       Yes

     https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/sanctions/challenging-a-sanction/

    Make sure you only send a copy of the letter, not the original. 

Kim_13

If they were supposed to call your mobile, I'd also include a screenshot of the call log showing that no call arrived. It would be possible to not attend a telephone appointment by not answering it.

Did you contact the Job Centre to advise that your work coach did not call as arranged? Provide any evidence you can of this (copy of a journal entry, the time and who you spoke to if you called to report this.) I wouldn't be surprised if you came up against this expectation. If you did not, then you can only do the best you can with what you have and be sure to log it the same day if it happens again.

Beckz1205

No I didn’t contact the job centre which I probably should have but I had somewhere else to be on Tuesday afternoon  and tbh didn’t think about it again until I received the letter. Why do work coaches not ring claimants if they don’t attend appointments to find out why instead of just sending letters threatening sanctions? Tbh I don’t really like this new work coach I have- she refused to give me any contact details to directly contact her when I asked and said I have to just ring the standard 0800 number. I forgot to
mention I am claiming ESA and am in the wrag. With regards to my call log, isn’t it possible to
delete calls from the call log (not that I have) so that wouldn’t stand as proof would it. I did have someone with me at my last appointment too who can vouch for a telephone appointment being arranged instead of a face to face appointmente. 

huckster

You need to call 0800 169 0310 about missing the telephone appointment and request a new appointment.

Job Centres don't have direct dial numbers. You have to call the 0800 number.

Beckz1205

I didn’t miss the telephone appointment. Nobody rang me.

Kim_13

Beckz1205 said:

No I didn’t contact the job centre which I probably should have but I had somewhere else to be on Tuesday afternoon  and tbh didn’t think about it again until I received the letter. Why do work coaches not ring claimants if they don’t attend appointments to find out why instead of just sending letters threatening sanctions? Tbh I don’t really like this new work coach I have- she refused to give me any contact details to directly contact her when I asked and said I have to just ring the standard 0800 number. I forgot to
mention I am claiming ESA and am in the wrag. With regards to my call log, isn’t it possible to
delete calls from the call log (not that I have) so that wouldn’t stand as proof would it. I did have someone with me at my last appointment too who can vouch for a telephone appointment being arranged instead of a face to face appointmente. 

The call log would still be better than nothing, as is the fact there was a witness. On the same token they could claim that anyone could have written telephone appointment on the letter (it sounds like it was handwritten by the work coach and that the letter originally gave the venue as the job centre.) None are conclusive proof - a system that doesn’t ring claimants to check if there has been valid reason for an appointment being missed when an appointment has never been missed before may well say that the witness is not independent - but three factors that support your case would hopefully be hard for them to ignore.

If it were me, any later arrangements for a telephone appointment would be confirmed in writing whether electronic or by post, providing evidence for both sides. I do wonder if the work coach even recorded it as a telephone appointment at their end, as from reading other posts here, they don’t seem common at all (sometimes requiring claimants to travel a considerable distance, even to a job centre that isn’t the closest one to them at considerable expense.) 

The sanction letter seems a particularly bad system with the Royal Mail as it is of late, as the deadline given to give the reason could well have passed before the letter arrives in some areas. 

gbhxu

Kim_13 said:

Beckz1205 said:

No I didn’t contact the job centre which I probably should have but I had somewhere else to be on Tuesday afternoon  and tbh didn’t think about it again until I received the letter. Why do work coaches not ring claimants if they don’t attend appointments to find out why instead of just sending letters threatening sanctions? Tbh I don’t really like this new work coach I have- she refused to give me any contact details to directly contact her when I asked and said I have to just ring the standard 0800 number. I forgot to
mention I am claiming ESA and am in the wrag. With regards to my call log, isn’t it possible to
delete calls from the call log (not that I have) so that wouldn’t stand as proof would it. I did have someone with me at my last appointment too who can vouch for a telephone appointment being arranged instead of a face to face appointmente. 

The call log would still be better than nothing, as is the fact there was a witness. On the same token they could claim that anyone could have written telephone appointment on the letter (it sounds like it was handwritten by the work coach and that the letter originally gave the venue as the job centre.) None are conclusive proof - a system that doesn’t ring claimants to check if there has been valid reason for an appointment being missed when an appointment has never been missed before may well say that the witness is not independent - but three factors that support your case would hopefully be hard for them to ignore.

If it were me, any later arrangements for a telephone appointment would be confirmed in writing whether electronic or by post, providing evidence for both sides. I do wonder if the work coach even recorded it as a telephone appointment at their end, as from reading other posts here, they don’t seem common at all (sometimes requiring claimants to travel a considerable distance, even to a job centre that isn’t the closest one to them at considerable expense.) 

The sanction letter seems a particularly bad system with the Royal Mail as it is of late, as the deadline given to give the reason could well have passed before the letter arrives in some areas. 

Depends if the DWP used Royal Mail directly or UK Mail like they normally do?

UK Mail letters normally take longer than a standard Royal Mail letter

Spoonie_Turtle

gbhxu said:

Kim_13 said:

Beckz1205 said:

No I didn’t contact the job centre which I probably should have but I had somewhere else to be on Tuesday afternoon  and tbh didn’t think about it again until I received the letter. Why do work coaches not ring claimants if they don’t attend appointments to find out why instead of just sending letters threatening sanctions? Tbh I don’t really like this new work coach I have- she refused to give me any contact details to directly contact her when I asked and said I have to just ring the standard 0800 number. I forgot to
mention I am claiming ESA and am in the wrag. With regards to my call log, isn’t it possible to
delete calls from the call log (not that I have) so that wouldn’t stand as proof would it. I did have someone with me at my last appointment too who can vouch for a telephone appointment being arranged instead of a face to face appointmente. 

The call log would still be better than nothing, as is the fact there was a witness. On the same token they could claim that anyone could have written telephone appointment on the letter (it sounds like it was handwritten by the work coach and that the letter originally gave the venue as the job centre.) None are conclusive proof - a system that doesn’t ring claimants to check if there has been valid reason for an appointment being missed when an appointment has never been missed before may well say that the witness is not independent - but three factors that support your case would hopefully be hard for them to ignore.

If it were me, any later arrangements for a telephone appointment would be confirmed in writing whether electronic or by post, providing evidence for both sides. I do wonder if the work coach even recorded it as a telephone appointment at their end, as from reading other posts here, they don’t seem common at all (sometimes requiring claimants to travel a considerable distance, even to a job centre that isn’t the closest one to them at considerable expense.) 

The sanction letter seems a particularly bad system with the Royal Mail as it is of late, as the deadline given to give the reason could well have passed before the letter arrives in some areas. 

Depends if the DWP used Royal Mail directly or UK Mail like they normally do?

UK Mail letters normally take longer than a standard Royal Mail letter

I've never had a physical DWP letter arrive sooner than 7 days after the date at the top.
(Definitely one advantage of UC having everything electronically on the journal!)

Beckz1205

I have attended every single appointment I have had so I really have no reason to suddenly miss an appointment and fake a telephone appointment- which will be part of my argument when I ring them. The reason I asked for a telephone appointment is because my Nan who is my support and also takes me to all appointments has recently been diagnosed with terminal cancer so now has a lot of her own appointments/treatments and obviously is ill. I did get quite upset when telling my work coach this and she agreed to the telephone appointment. I have anxiety and suffer from
panic attacks and because of this can’t get public transport and I have epilepsy so also don’t go anywhere alone incase I have a seizure. 

Riverstone58

I thought appointments were only arranged through the journal?

I recently had an appointment booked with my WC at the JC which was all arranged and noted/confirmed in my journal with no letters involved at any stage.

This was then re-arranged to be by telephone, again all done and noted in my journal. I've never received any letters from the JC for such appointments so I wasn't aware there are instances where this is done by post?

I received a text reminder for the appointment at the JC itself a couple of days beforehand so I messaged the WC querying this. She explained this was through a batch automated system which hadn't been updated and so I was sent another confirmation that the appointment was to be by phone.

So there's no record of this in your journal? On the few occasions I've had to directly message my WC I've always received a prompt reply, often the same day or the next at the latest.