Wills, money, and land abroad (Inheritance)

Keep_pedalling

Mands said:

user1977 said:

The Cypriot land is going to have to be dealt with under the Cypriot process (and who inherits might be different too - have you checked there isn't a Cypriot Will dealing with the estate there?), you'll have to get Cypriot advice about that.

If there's no Cypriot will then she is likely intestate here and the normal forced heirship rules apply. You, and any siblings, plus your father inherit in equal shares. There is a Cypriot equivalent of a deed of variation that your father could use to re-direct his share to you.

I don’t think that is correct, for someone resident in the UK a UK will can cover Cypriot property. 

https://worldwidelawyers.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/WillProbateGuide-Cyprus.pdf

Mands

Keep_pedalling said:

Mands said:

user1977 said:

The Cypriot land is going to have to be dealt with under the Cypriot process (and who inherits might be different too - have you checked there isn't a Cypriot Will dealing with the estate there?), you'll have to get Cypriot advice about that.

If there's no Cypriot will then she is likely intestate here and the normal forced heirship rules apply. You, and any siblings, plus your father inherit in equal shares. There is a Cypriot equivalent of a deed of variation that your father could use to re-direct his share to you.

I don’t think that is correct, for someone resident in the UK a UK will can cover Cypriot property. 

https://worldwidelawyers.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/WillProbateGuide-Cyprus.pdf

I was on my way out of the door and may have traded brevity for clarity. Apologies, let me try again.

A Cypriot national does not have the right to bequeath Cypriot assets as they see fit. They are bound by the laws of forced heirship. 

A non-Cypriot may bypass this but the will must contain specific wording to achieve that. The lawyers would have needed to know of the Cypriot assets and understand the implications and draft the UK will with those in mind. 

Either way: the UK will does not achieve what the OP, and his father, want which is for all assets to go to the OP. Happily a deed of variation is possible and can achieve that for them. 

Mands

JakeHyde

Keep_pedalling said:

unforeseen said:

It's called a deed of variation. The subject has cropped up on these boards quite often. 

A deed of variation is not appropriate in this case (unless the OPs parents were not married) it offers no tax advantages and could actually leave you with an IHT liability if her estate turns out to be in excess of her NRB. 

Anything someone leaves to a spouse is covered by spousal exemption so a DoV will simply use up her NRB which would otherwise have been transferable to her husband’s estate. The simplest solution is for him to simply gift his inheritance to you if that is what he wants to do.

one note of caution gifting or him making a DoV will be seen as deliberate deprivation of assets if he is on any means tested benefits and the same could apply to future care costs if he does not have means of his own to fund them.

'Deliberate deprivation of assets' could be an issue, he's 80 this year. I don't think he's on any means tested benefits. Just Pension, and Attendants Allowance. 

JakeHyde

JamesRobinson48 said:

IMHO, this instance bears out why solicitors engaged in will drafting like to meet with clients alone, in order to discern their true wishes in private.  For whatever reason, Mum preferred to leave her entire estate to Dad. It's not for other relatives to assert what different thing should have happened. Supposing Dad still has mental capacity, once he has the money he could choose to make gifts, subject to DoA considerations as mentioned above.

In this case mum was very vocal about not being happy with the will, and wanting to change it. But we lost her without warning, over night. The plan was always for me to inherit her estate, but she didn't understand a lot, with English not being her first language, and I feel like she might have been railroaded into it.

I know what dad is like, gaslighting her, and not listening to her, she would have been pressured into whatever they say. She expressed her wishes, but I think due to the nature of the type of simple will, I think it could only go to my dad or something!?     

I'm going to go back to the solicitor and find out from the horses mouth, what exactly is going on.

Keep_pedalling said:

Another note of caution, from a couple your posts elsewhere it seems you don’t currently own property and your mother severed the tenancy on the marital home, so you need to be careful about  thanking ownership of her half of the family home. Owning that will impact the cost of buying your own home as you will loose your first time buyer status and you will pay an additional 3% of SDLT on any purchase you make. CGT could be an issue when you eventually sell as well.

The normal way to leave a share of the marital home to a child would be to create an immediate post-death interest trust, which effectively leave the beneficial ownership in the hands of the surviving spouse and the legal ownership with the trust. The eventual beneficiary does not get to inherit until the death of the surviving spouse. This provides absolute security for the surviving spouse and avoids the issues associated for the eventual beneficiary.

This would actually require a DoV as it is the only way to do it, but again it could be treated as deliberate deprivation of assets in some circumstances. 

I'm hoping we might be able to either sell the property within her estate before it comes to me, or I buy a house first before officially accepting the deeds, maybe?! I have a meeting with the solicitor next week.

JakeHyde

Mands said:

user1977 said:

The Cypriot land is going to have to be dealt with under the Cypriot process (and who inherits might be different too - have you checked there isn't a Cypriot Will dealing with the estate there?), you'll have to get Cypriot advice about that.

If there's no Cypriot will then she is likely intestate here and the normal forced heirship rules apply. You, and any siblings, plus your father inherit in equal shares. There is a Cypriot equivalent of a deed of variation that your father could use to re-direct his share to you.

There is a central will registry here so it would be easy for a legal professional to check if she has a Cypriot will.

You must use a lawyer for probate here. Until recently there was a minimum charge of 5% (plus VAT, plus expenses) of the estate value. That has now been lifted, but lawyers tend to stick to the 5% as their fee structure.

* In what bank is her account? Some are more user-friendly than others. 
* In what village is the land? A 50% fall in value in recent years would be unusual and and it's hard to see how it could be attributed to the troubles of '74.

Mands

"Thats now been lifted" - thank goodness!

The main road to the village has been closed off, now owned by the Turkish Government, so the village sees no tourism, plus covid, and other stuff lead to property prices to fall. I'm just saying what I've been told. I need to go back over there and see what's what, and get a proper evaluation. I don't speak the language which is a problem.

Mands

JakeHyde said:

Mands said:

user1977 said:

The Cypriot land is going to have to be dealt with under the Cypriot process (and who inherits might be different too - have you checked there isn't a Cypriot Will dealing with the estate there?), you'll have to get Cypriot advice about that.

If there's no Cypriot will then she is likely intestate here and the normal forced heirship rules apply. You, and any siblings, plus your father inherit in equal shares. There is a Cypriot equivalent of a deed of variation that your father could use to re-direct his share to you.

There is a central will registry here so it would be easy for a legal professional to check if she has a Cypriot will.

You must use a lawyer for probate here. Until recently there was a minimum charge of 5% (plus VAT, plus expenses) of the estate value. That has now been lifted, but lawyers tend to stick to the 5% as their fee structure.

* In what bank is her account? Some are more user-friendly than others. 
* In what village is the land? A 50% fall in value in recent years would be unusual and and it's hard to see how it could be attributed to the troubles of '74.

Mands

"Thats now been lifted" - thank goodness!

The main road to the village has been closed off, now owned by the Turkish Government, so the village sees no tourism, plus covid, and other stuff lead to property prices to fall. I'm just saying what I've been told. I need to go back over there and see what's what, and get a proper evaluation. I don't speak the language which is a problem.

"That's now been lifted" but it makes no difference as lawyers still use 5% as their starting point for negotiations. 

JakeHyde

Mands said:

JakeHyde said:

Mands said:

user1977 said:

The Cypriot land is going to have to be dealt with under the Cypriot process (and who inherits might be different too - have you checked there isn't a Cypriot Will dealing with the estate there?), you'll have to get Cypriot advice about that.

If there's no Cypriot will then she is likely intestate here and the normal forced heirship rules apply. You, and any siblings, plus your father inherit in equal shares. There is a Cypriot equivalent of a deed of variation that your father could use to re-direct his share to you.

There is a central will registry here so it would be easy for a legal professional to check if she has a Cypriot will.

You must use a lawyer for probate here. Until recently there was a minimum charge of 5% (plus VAT, plus expenses) of the estate value. That has now been lifted, but lawyers tend to stick to the 5% as their fee structure.

* In what bank is her account? Some are more user-friendly than others. 
* In what village is the land? A 50% fall in value in recent years would be unusual and and it's hard to see how it could be attributed to the troubles of '74.

Mands

"Thats now been lifted" - thank goodness!

The main road to the village has been closed off, now owned by the Turkish Government, so the village sees no tourism, plus covid, and other stuff lead to property prices to fall. I'm just saying what I've been told. I need to go back over there and see what's what, and get a proper evaluation. I don't speak the language which is a problem.

"That's now been lifted" but it makes no difference as lawyers still use 5% as their starting point for negotiations. 

I think the solicitor we are using is charging about £1200, not as cheap as DIY, but I guess they know what they're doing.

Mands

JakeHyde said:

Mands said:

JakeHyde said:

Mands said:

user1977 said:

The Cypriot land is going to have to be dealt with under the Cypriot process (and who inherits might be different too - have you checked there isn't a Cypriot Will dealing with the estate there?), you'll have to get Cypriot advice about that.

If there's no Cypriot will then she is likely intestate here and the normal forced heirship rules apply. You, and any siblings, plus your father inherit in equal shares. There is a Cypriot equivalent of a deed of variation that your father could use to re-direct his share to you.

There is a central will registry here so it would be easy for a legal professional to check if she has a Cypriot will.

You must use a lawyer for probate here. Until recently there was a minimum charge of 5% (plus VAT, plus expenses) of the estate value. That has now been lifted, but lawyers tend to stick to the 5% as their fee structure.

* In what bank is her account? Some are more user-friendly than others. 
* In what village is the land? A 50% fall in value in recent years would be unusual and and it's hard to see how it could be attributed to the troubles of '74.

Mands

"Thats now been lifted" - thank goodness!

The main road to the village has been closed off, now owned by the Turkish Government, so the village sees no tourism, plus covid, and other stuff lead to property prices to fall. I'm just saying what I've been told. I need to go back over there and see what's what, and get a proper evaluation. I don't speak the language which is a problem.

"That's now been lifted" but it makes no difference as lawyers still use 5% as their starting point for negotiations. 

I think the solicitor we are using is charging about £1200, not as cheap as DIY, but I guess they know what they're doing.

Your legal bill in Cyprus for a €100k estate is likely to be in the region €5k to  €7k.