Online perfume returns

DJ809

Hello all,
I purchased a bottle of aftershave online via Tiktok from a semi large perfume and aftershave online seller. During a live he said one of his aftershave was a match to an expensive retail aftershave. So I purchased this bottle for £68. It arrived today and smelt nothing like the said aftershave he claimed it smelt like. 

I contacted him for a refund under the fact it didn’t smell anywhere near the retail version and that for £68 per bottle he was ripping people off by lying. He said as I can’t return it as I’ve opened it and this falls within the UK online cosmetic retailers policies. 

But as far as I’m concerned it don’t smell like that he claimed it would. So should be allowed to send it back as not as describe? Is this correct? 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

Yes you can return something if it doesn't meet the description, do you have a link to the site?

If you paid by card a chargeback may be an option, chargeback will likely require a return, is there a returns address on the site, emails, paperwork, shipping label? 

user1977

The retailer is a "semi large seller" but you're talking about him as if it's just one guy?

DullGreyGuy

Perfumes etc do have incredible markups, second only to sunglasses, but there is variations in the quality of the ingredients used. Some of the cheap knock offs actually have a much higher percentage markup than the originals because they dont include any of the expensive components like real Jasmine or Ambergris etc.. takes 8,000 flowers to make 1.1g of absolute Jasmine oil and synthetic Jasmine oil is less than 5% of the price yet they are charging you more than half the price. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Yes you can return something if it doesn't meet the description, do you have a link to the site?

Smell is very subjective, even the identical perfume will smell differently on two different people. It will be very hard to prove one perfume doesn't smell similar to another. 

Also, given it's a "genuine fake" there could be other issues with attempting to enforce rights. The OP should know you cannot legally just copy someone else's creation and so either should expect it to be "similar" rather than "identical" (adding more subjectivity) or they were believing they were buying a counterfeit item which is illegal

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

DullGreyGuy said:

Also, given it's a "genuine fake" there could be other issues with attempting to enforce rights. The OP should know you cannot legally just copy someone else's creation and so either should expect it to be "similar" rather than "identical" (adding more subjectivity) or they were believing they were buying a counterfeit item which is illegal

From what I understand as perfume is a combination of ingredients it's not something you can typically protect.

A quick Google suggests only 2 smells have protected in the UK back in 1994. In France they can't protect perfume smells but a Dutch court ruled in 2006 that they could  be. 

I don't have the interest to dive deeper into that one but I think (although happy to be corrected) if you can manage to copy another scent you are free to do so but what you can't do is use another Trademark as part of your business, so you can't use the word Gucci as part of your advert to make a comparison (but that's separate to the consumer's issue with rights) and I would assume things such has phrases, logos, colours and possibly bottle shapes can be protected as well but again I don't see a consumer would lose their rights because a company has breached someone elses's IP. 

Apple have been accused of patent infringement but you can still seek consumer rights if your iPhone doesn't conform. 

DullGreyGuy said:

Smell is very subjective, even the identical perfume will smell differently on two different people. It will be very hard to prove one perfume doesn't smell similar to another. 

I fully agree but burden of proof falls on the trader, unless they claim it's a faulty batch it won't be possible to repair or replace and exercising the final right to reject still comes with reverse burden of proof. 

The trader also mentions the bottle being opened, I'm not sure perfume would even meet the hygiene requirements anyway (probably a 42 page debate to be had on that one ) but if it did but wasn't sealed then right to cancel exists, return costs and diminished value subject to information given. 

DullGreyGuy

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Smell is very subjective, even the identical perfume will smell differently on two different people. It will be very hard to prove one perfume doesn't smell similar to another. 

I fully agree but burden of proof falls on the trader, unless they claim it's a faulty batch it won't be possible to repair or replace and exercising the final right to reject still comes with reverse burden of proof. 

The trader also mentions the bottle being opened, I'm not sure perfume would even meet the hygiene requirements anyway (probably a 42 page debate to be had on that one ) but if it did but wasn't sealed then right to cancel exists, return costs and diminished value subject to information given. 

Why do you think the burden of proof falls on the trader?

The OP presumably is wanting to exercise their short term right of rejection under the CRA which means the burden of proof is on them as the claimant. 

As to the other point... the OP had already said it was said to smell similar to rather than identical hence falls into the first point of adding further subjectivity. How close does something have to smell to be considered "similar". Davidoff's BlueWater smells similar to the much more expensive Creed's Green Irish Tweed for the first 5 minutes but then the two quickly diverge (mainly Davidoff;s copy fades very quickly and in a different way)

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

DullGreyGuy said:

Why do you think the burden of proof falls on the trader?

The OP presumably is wanting to exercise their short term right of rejection under the CRA which means the burden of proof is on them as the claimant. 

The consumer can't exercise their right to a repair or replacement where it is "impossible", if the trader claims the perfume smells how it should then OP can jump straight to final right to reject, basically there is no need to use the short term right to reject, the consumer doesn't have to do so, it's merely an option for them  

DullGreyGuy said:

As to the other point... the OP had already said it was said to smell similar to rather than identical hence falls into the first point of adding further subjectivity. How close does something have to smell to be considered "similar".

Yes indeed, the trader would have to risk going to small claims and have the court decide on that one, but when considering the above about proof I assume the trader can't jut turn up and say so, they have to demonstrate such on the balance of probabilities in the same way the consumer would have to do so after 6 months which based on the consistent advice on the forum means an independent inspection. 

If I were a perfume seller and someone dug their hills in over the smell not being right I'd probably view it to be sensible to simply write it off. 

DullGreyGuy said:the OP had already said it was said to smell similar to rather than identical 

Apparently it's a "match" whatever than means but wouldn't Section 69 of the CRA give the most favourable meaning to the consumer?

born_again

DJ809 said:

Hello all,
I purchased a bottle of aftershave online via Tiktok from a semi large perfume and aftershave online seller. During a live he said one of his aftershave was a match to an expensive retail aftershave. So I purchased this bottle for £68. It arrived today and smelt nothing like the said aftershave he claimed it smelt like. 

I contacted him for a refund under the fact it didn’t smell anywhere near the retail version and that for £68 per bottle he was ripping people off by lying. He said as I can’t return it as I’ve opened it and this falls within the UK online cosmetic retailers policies. 

But as far as I’m concerned it don’t smell like that he claimed it would. So should be allowed to send it back as not as describe? Is this correct? 

Just who is this?

Perhaps the best way is to create your own Tik Tok about the quality...

Social media has a lot to answer for..😶‍🌫️As far to many believe everything they see & read as gospel & 100% legitimate.

sheramber

DullGreyGuy said:

Smell is very subjective, even the identical perfume will smell differently on two different people. 

Very much so.

A colleague always wore a perfume which smelt like insect killer spray to me.  One other person in the office shared that opinion 

HillStreetBlues

When he said smells like a match, he meant a packet of Swan Vestas
£68 for some fake aftershave, the mind boggles.

Pollycat

DJ809 said:

Hello all,
I purchased a bottle of aftershave online via Tiktok from a semi large perfume and aftershave online seller. During a live he said one of his aftershave was a match to an expensive retail aftershave. So I purchased this bottle for £68. It arrived today and smelt nothing like the said aftershave he claimed it smelt like. 

Just curious - how much is the genuine aftershave?