Packing Charge Notice expiration?

NobbyGiles

Hi all, newbie here (and yes I read the newbie threads!) with a question re Parking Charge Notices (NOT Penalty Charge Notice)

Specifically I have seen mention in a few places including this forum that PCNs "expire" and are unenforceable after 6 months. Can anyone point me to a source verifying this? I can't find anything online

Won't bore you with ALL the gory details but in the middle of a dispute with a private parking company who issued a PCN to me for £85 for parking without a ticket a station car park. On the day in question the ticket machines (combined machine for train and parking) were out of order and I didn't have time to go anywhere else or I would miss my train. I was told by railway staff on site I could park and they would inform the parking people they were telling people it was ok so no penalties would be issued. Train ticket could be bought on board but NOT parking. I did not have means on me (or even the inclination if I had of!) to use an app to pay

Sure enough PCN followed. I followed parking co's appeal process and POPLA appeal process and both were kicked back on autopilot - "we note your appeal and mitigating circumstances however we have photos of you being there so pay up an excess fee". 

Since then parking co has passed it to a debt collector which has doubled the claimed fee and is threatening a private CRIMINAL prosecution. Now...

• I have always offered to pay for the parking on the day, I will NOT pay excess due to circumstances explained above
• I believe this charge is unreasonable and am prepared to defend that in civil claims court if it goes there
• So far as I am aware only the TOC as land owner can start a private criminal prosecution under railway byelaws in this case, NOT a debt collector or private parking co. TOC is saying it's nothing to do with them and I need to deal with parking co. I am still pushing them for confirmation on whether or not they intend to pursue a criminal prosecution
• Parking co refused to give any further info such as how many invoices/PCNs issued on that day, how they arrive at their excess fee (for lost earnings I assume but don't see how that is broken down when all day is £7.80 for a space) or how the internal and POPLA appeals process actually works in practice (who makes decision, is it individual/committee/algorithm, etc?)
• Debt collector refuses to give any information re whether they have given money to parking co for the alleged "receivable", their relationship to parking co or anything other than "pay up or your account will progress"

If PCNs expire I may as well dig my heels in but I'm not finding anything to ratify this. My position is that this is a commercial dispute over price and no debt has actually been created until a court rules one way or another. At the moment between debt collector, parking co and TOC I don't actually know who I am supposed to owe money too! I'm assuming TOC can't prosecute for somebody else's debt even if there is one!

Whichever the right or wrongs of any specific case I have found that dealing with these private parking co's, especially when they run sites for national infrastructure/utilities, is deeply unpleasant

All thoughts/help/advice gratefully received!

Coupon-mad

Penalty notices - 6 months.

Parking Charge Notices - 6 years.

troublemaker22

Pity you didn’t come here before appealing and most likely revealed who was driving in doing so because railway PCNs are not enforceable against a keeper or hirer who does not reveal the driver’s identity. If the PPC is Apcoa they will cancel the PCN without a quibble in response to a correctly worded appeal and POPLA will usually do likewise.  

All that doesn’t mean you still can’t beat this PCN.  But you might not be asking the right questions. Read the Newbies thread then come here if you have specific questions not answered there.  

NobbyGiles

Thanks for the quick responses - 6 years makes more sense under statute of limitations

To be honest I had perhaps stupidly assumed that as the machines not working it would be a simple appeal...

Coupon-mad

Which PPC?

NobbyGiles

PPC is APCOA

Coupon-mad

Ignore them. They never sue.

Nothing will happen but do tell them if you change address:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80641210/#Comment_80641210

troublemaker22

Well that appeal was misconceived. But Apcoa doesn’t usually go to court - even against a motorist that puts in a misconceived appeal. Read the Newbies thread to avoid further mistakes. 

NobbyGiles

Thanks everyone, I'll see how it develops

As a matter of interest does anyone know whether APCOA sells the alleged debt to debt collection companies or if the debt collectors work on a "no collect no fee" basis. Interested to know if the invoice is actually assigned rather than collection outsourced with APCOA retaining "title" 

Coupon-mad

No parking firm can sell or assign alleged debt.  It's one of the very few consumer data safeguards the useless DVLA bother to insist on.  It's no-win-no-fee ambulance chasing only.

NobbyGiles

Here is a thing...

Parking co are insisting I have a Penalty Notice not a Parking Charge Notice. When I check correspondence I have correspondence from them labelled BOTH PN and PCN with the same reference number!

Where does that leave me? 6 month expiration?