Missives pull out

sheramber

oldernonethewiser said:

sheramber said:

oldernonethewiser said:

comeandgo said:

The sellers did not give you an unrealistic deadline, they have been more than generous.  Properties sell in a few weeks in Scotland.  The funding of your buyers should have been checked by your estate agents or solicitor.  This is only March so you have a few weeks to get things sorted.

Bit of a generalisation there.  

Not really.

Potential entry dates are discussed before offering so bith oarties know what the position is. If you waiting for a slae 

House sales can be ready for signing  missives in 4 weeks.

Entry date is agreed before missives are signed.

That is the time to sort out a realistic entry date.  There is no automatically waiting for everybody in a chain to  be ready.  Such a situation would have to be agreed with your seller as it is normal practice in Scottish sales.

My sale was completed and I moved out in 4 weeks, My purchase offer was accepted on 14 October  and my entry date was 1 December.

Nothing unusual in that.

Ah - sorry.  You mean the process once an offer has been made.  I thought you meant that when a house went to market in Scotland it would sell quickly.

Agree than lots can be sorted before pen is put to paper and the actual legal process can be pretty quick.

Can still be a worrying time of course until the Missives are signed.

I received two offers within 6 days of going on sale.  One from someone who had sold and the other from someone renting.

My current house was viewed 5 days after going on the market and they had had 14 viewers already.

Sale went to a closing date  which was 7 days later. There were two offers and mine was accepted two days later,

_Penny_Dreadful

carolineb5949 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

user1977 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

carolineb5949 said:

Please before I begin I can not tell you how worried I am so please no judgement.

So me and my partner are mid 50s and have worked very hard to build up 2 businesses and have a nice home (which has another business - a shop- attached) but this is in the city and we always dreamed of moving to the country one day. Like a lot of people I look at these big detached houses on sites in the millions of pounds knowing we could never afford one until we came across one that had a good income from several cottages, we went to view and although we had no idea how we could afford it we fell in love it was in Scotland and the sellers had already purchased another house they were living in so were keen to hurry thing along. We fell in love with the place.

Sadly after looking in to a bridging loan it was still well beyond our reach. Then the lovely sellers (who are multi millionaires) came up with a loan agreement as they were not desperate for the money straight away, it was interest free, we were over the moon, all we had to do was raise half the money from the sale of our properties and businesses. Although the sellers were being unbelievably kind they did put ridiculous almost unachievable time lines on the purchase especially as we had to find a purchaser and quick, the first deadline for concluding missives end Jan (we only viewed end Nov) we looked at loans, quick sales and so on but then out of the blue one of our customers registered an interest for buying EVERYTHING, we got valuations done, our buyers were sorting finance, we rushed through structural surveys and had a Scottish and English solicitor, a tax advisor, accountant all working on it but our legal team said due to the complexities and scale of it that it would take months. We explained this via us and our solicitor and reluctantly they agreed a final deadline for missives of end of Feb. 

We were elated as we felt this timeline was doable, our buyers (who live round the corner) kept us updated with the finance side having made us aware they had raised a large amount already from a family member and the email I was waiting for came through saying everything for their loan was approved, obviously due to selling in England and buying in Scotland paperwork wise it was difficult. 

Then one day before we were due to sign our missives and the buyer signing our sales contracts we got a call from our solicitor saying the buyers solicitor had contacted him to say although the loan was approved for our buyers finance it had not yet been signed off on as they were still carrying out due diligence our buyers said they were not aware of this.

We were then left in the awful position as the sellers would not extend the deadline further which they pretty much stated in every email to our solicitor, do we sign knowing our buyers were almost there and had already arranged a large sum of money or did we miss the deadline and the sellers pull out and us lose a once in a lifetime dream to own a property like this.

Now our solicitor did warn that if we then pulled out after signing we would have significant costs but we signed the missives with a long date of entry for 1st June. This was a couple of weeks ago and although our buyers had assured us the completed due diligence was only a couple of days off and we have not had anything pulled we have still not had reassurance that everything is in place as yet. I am a nervous wreck, I can't eat, I can't sleep this has been made worse as we have now found out that the large amount from a family member is in fact another loan and that has not been signed off on as yet either, one of the loans is only on the table until end of March but it means we could be in limbo for weeks yet when I should be celebrating and packing, I do genuinely believe the buyers want this more than anything but if the finance is not approved.....

So why am I saying all this, well I had a conversation with my solicitor a couple of days after signing the missives about my costs should the worst happen and he is talking hundreds of thousands of pounds due to the sellers advertising campaign, legals and possibly the difference between our sales price and someone buying it for less, needless to say I do not have that sort of money. If any legal people (or something similar has happened to you, not just on the scale of a standard house) can advise on litigation, can I argue the sellers pressured us with an unrealistic deadline?  could I sue the buyers for being dishonest about their funding?

I am preying it does not come to this and everything goes through but I can not shake that feeling of inpending doom and would love to get some input from others, thank-you.

It boils down to you making an offer on a Scottish property when you were not really in a position to do so. 

It's fine to make an offer, as long as you're clear that you're relying on (a) your sale and (b) the speed of the system in England, and so won't be in a position to conclude unconditional missives until quite late.

I realise concluding the missives is the point of no return but I would never go as far as making an offer on a Scottish property if I was reliant on the sale of an English property and hadn’t even exchanged contracts yet. Likewise, I wouldn’t accept an offer from someone who was reliant on the sale of an English property and still waiting for exchange.  

It's quite a difficult one to explain without writing pages but after our viewing and looking in to a bridging loan we told the sellers we would not be putting in an offer due to affordability, it was the sellers who came up with the price (as Scotland is offers over) and the finance offer, it was only when our customer said they had funding did we make the offer through the solicitor, I was in contact with the seller and she knew we had not sold and understood quoting " you may as well make the offer official and get the ball rolling and if your buyer pulls out you are not legally bound with the offer", it was only when the buyers said their loan had been signed off on did we arrange to sign missives and only the day before this did we find out their finance were still doing due diligence but their solicitor said it was unlikely to be a problem and if something was pulled we would have a chance to rectify it, it was only after signing missives did we find our buyer who had told us nearly half of the money was coming from a family member was in fact another loan by which point it was too late, this was never going to be a quick straight forward transaction due to selling in UK as we were not going to sell unless definitely buying and we could not buy until definitely selling, our UK properties were never put on the market, the Scotish purchase involves 10 properties, a lot of land, a business and a loan hence why we were quoted 4 - 6 months by both solicitors but the sellers cut off date was 2 months, hence the panic.

Your buyers fibbed to you but as you have not exchanged contracts with them either one of you could still back out without repercussion so as I said earlier you cannot successfully sue them as they have not breeched any contract.

As for the Scottish sellers they were free to demand what they liked and you were free to stick to your guns and take longer.  Your solicitor, the once voice you should have been listening to, did warn you of the consequences but you did it anyway.

carolineb5949 said:

Now our solicitor did warn that if we then pulled out after signing we would have significant costs but we signed the missives with a long date of entry for 1st June.

I bought a property not long after the Mortgage Market Review test was introduced so mortgages offers were taking longer to be issued.  The seller tried to push me into concluding the missives quicker or he'd withdraw from the sale.  I called his bluff and told him to jog on.  The whole thing took 8.5 weeks due to the MMR, don't know what he was complaining about really.

I doubt the sellers are being inundated with offers to purchase 10 properties plus a lot of land.  Even with the multiple dwelling relief I can only imagine that the LBTT will be eye watering and multiple properties plus land seems like quite a specific type of purchase rather than just another family home.  Try and work something out with your sellers and get the English properties back on the market asap hopefully with an estate agent who is better at qualifying potential buyers.

loubel

You made the decision to commit to the purchase, knowing that you didn't have finance lined up. Now you've got cold feet and are panicking that you made the wrong decision. Understandable, but you have until 1 June to get things sorted. Keep on top of your sale and start looking at alternatives just in case. Dwelling on the decision isn't going to help you now.

carolineb5949

No cold feet on the purchase, can't wait to get there tbh, just panic over buyers, got a valuation done a while ago from a company who offered auction for a quick sale if thongs did not go as planned, emailed him over the weekend to call me so I can check process and timeline, thanks

loubel

The cold feet was regarding having signed the missives. Fingers crossed your buyers are able to exchange contracts soon.

GDB2222

_Penny_Dreadful said:

I doubt the sellers are being inundated with offers to purchase 10 properties plus a lot of land.  Even with the multiple dwelling relief I can only imagine that the LBTT will be eye watering and multiple properties plus land seems like quite a specific type of purchase rather than just another family home.  Try and work something out with your sellers and get the English properties back on the market asap hopefully with an estate agent who is better at qualifying potential buyers.

"I doubt the sellers are being inundated with offers" cuts both ways. The sellers don't need any more offers. They have concluded missives with the OP, and if they remarket and the next buyer will only pay say £0.5m less, then the OP is liable for the difference. The OP is dead right to be worried sick by that scenario. 

In practice, suing the OP is a pretty fraught process for the sellers for a number of reasons:

• The case will take ages to come to court.
• The sellers will have to take a loss on the sale to another buyer and hope that they can eventually recoup it from the OP
• The sellers have to win their case, and then extract their money from the OP.
• If the sellers sell for a lot less, the OP may simply go bankrupt and the sellers may only recoup part of their loss.
• Even if the sellers win, they will still be out of pocket for part of their legal fees.

So, it's in the sellers' interests to be reasonable and extend the 1 June deadline a bit. 


 

GDB2222

carolineb5949 said:

No cold feet on the purchase, can't wait to get there tbh, just panic over buyers, got a valuation done a while ago from a company who offered auction for a quick sale if thongs did not go as planned, emailed him over the weekend to call me so I can check process and timeline, thanks

It's good that you are being proactive. Do you need to look at different routes to auction the property and sell the businesses you have established?

carolineb5949

GDB2222 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

I doubt the sellers are being inundated with offers to purchase 10 properties plus a lot of land.  Even with the multiple dwelling relief I can only imagine that the LBTT will be eye watering and multiple properties plus land seems like quite a specific type of purchase rather than just another family home.  Try and work something out with your sellers and get the English properties back on the market asap hopefully with an estate agent who is better at qualifying potential buyers.

"I doubt the sellers are being inundated with offers" cuts both ways. The sellers don't need any more offers. They have concluded missives with the OP, and if they remarket and the next buyer will only pay say £0.5m less, then the OP is liable for the difference. The OP is dead right to be worried sick by that scenario. 

In practice, suing the OP is a pretty fraught process for the sellers for a number of reasons:

• The case will take ages to come to court.
• The sellers will have to take a loss on the sale to another buyer and hope that they can eventually recoup it from the OP
• The sellers have to win their case, and then extract their money from the OP.
• If the sellers sell for a lot less, the OP may simply go bankrupt and the sellers may only recoup part of their loss.
• Even if the sellers win, they will still be out of pocket for part of their legal fees.

So, it's in the sellers' interests to be reasonable and extend the 1 June deadline a bit. 


 

Thank-you they are very valid points, if the worst happens and our buyers finance does not come through at the end March, all we can do is send the assets to auction which we have been told start to finish is around 10 weeks but no guarantee of a sale and even then it means packing everything up having no idea if actually going. 

carolineb5949

GDB2222 said:

carolineb5949 said:

No cold feet on the purchase, can't wait to get there tbh, just panic over buyers, got a valuation done a while ago from a company who offered auction for a quick sale if thongs did not go as planned, emailed him over the weekend to call me so I can check process and timeline, thanks

It's good that you are being proactive. Do you need to look at different routes to auction the property and sell the businesses you have established?

It's not straight forwards, the auction people will not take the property on with a pending purchase meaning we could not put on until start April, the process then takes minimum 10 weeks as it is not an under the hammer style. The business side I can sell no problem but this is a very small amount compared to the building (a block of 8 rented flats) 

GDB2222

carolineb5949 said:

GDB2222 said:

carolineb5949 said:

No cold feet on the purchase, can't wait to get there tbh, just panic over buyers, got a valuation done a while ago from a company who offered auction for a quick sale if thongs did not go as planned, emailed him over the weekend to call me so I can check process and timeline, thanks

It's good that you are being proactive. Do you need to look at different routes to auction the property and sell the businesses you have established?

It's not straight forwards, the auction people will not take the property on with a pending purchase meaning we could not put on until start April, the process then takes minimum 10 weeks as it is not an under the hammer style. The business side I can sell no problem but this is a very small amount compared to the building (a block of 8 rented flats) 

Please, please go with a traditional style of auction, such as is done by Allsop (no connection). You should avoid the modern method of auction like the plague

A firm like Allsop can sell a block of 8 flats with no problem. Take a look at their auction catalogues.

https://www.allsop.co.uk/auctions/

Your flats are pretty much bound to sell at auction, providing you put a realistic reserve on them, with completion normally 28 days after the auction date. If time is tight you can specify a shorter period. 

It is quite common to see lots withdrawn from the auction because they have been sold prior, although you will have some fees to pay in those circumstances.