Landlord Help With Tenants In Wales

ProDave

If they really ARE moving out having bought a house, just wait until that happens, and THEN do whatever repairs are needed and start marketing the property.

Have THEY given notice to end their tenancy yet?  If not ask them exactly what are their plans and their timescale.

anselld

Unless Wales is somehow different a periodic tenancy continues unless new contract is agreed.  So your original contract remains in place.  What does it state about access for viewings?  Whatever it states is not necessarily easy to enforce but it would at least help to know where you stand with the contract and if they would be in breach by denying access.

housebuyer143

Wow, wouldn't surprise me if this was my old boss and his wife, sure sounds like it - they were a piece of work (owned a letting agent and his wife worked there( and for sure can see them doing this to you. 

Unfortunately they know their rights and have you over a barrel and you backing down on the rent increase probably made them feel like they have the power. Being nice unfortunately can be thrown in your face. 
If they are actually leaving, then you beat just wait it out and do nothing until they do.

_Penny_Dreadful

B15_Donne said:

Dear Forumites,

Some advice please. Myself and my father inherited my grandfathers property following his death in January 2022. 

Between January 2022 and July 2022 we emptied, and partially re-decorated and renovated 70% of the house before being approached by a married couple and their young family about renting my grandfathers house on a short term basis as they had sold their property.

We agreed that we would rent the property to them for £500pcm for an initial 6 month period. A contract was drawn up and this ran until 18th January 2023. The tenant is a director of his own Letting & Estate agency and his wife works as an employee at the Letting & Estate agency. When the initial contract ended on the 18th January 2023 we agreed that the rent would increase to £600pcm and we would review at the end of 2023 with the likelihood of raising it in January 2024. When we asked what happens when the original contract elapsed, their  response was “we will go onto a periodic tenancy, but we will have to move onto a new occupation contract before 31st May 2023”. Since May 2023 we haven’t seen sight of any contract and haven’t signed anything and have just left it as it is.

Now this is where our issues start. At the end of 2023 we instructed them in writing that we would be increasing the rent to £700pcm as mentioned at the start of 2023. Their response was it was no way fair to raise it to £700pcm, as the house was only 70% renovated and wasn’t worth that much in rent. In our defense, they were originally only meant to be there for a short term period as they were needing house to move into as they had sold their property and ours was a short term solution. They knew it wasn’t fully finished etc. To put it into context, if they weren’t occupying the property we would have fully renovated the property and should be getting in the region of £900+ pcm!!!!!!! With them being there longer than anticipated we’ve lost out on valuable income!!

Being, sympathetic we decided not to raise the rent and leave it as £600pcm. At the start of January 2024, our tenants informed us that they had bought a house and would be looking to complete at the end of March 2024 but needing a crossover period before moving out of our property. In this time, myself and my father have decided that we are going to sell the property to help fund another project. We’ve informed the tenant in writing and email using the correct notices from Rent Smart Wales, that we will be selling the house and would need access to the property for valuers to view the property. 

They had no issues with us selling the property, but have specifically stated they are only allowing valuers to come and view the property only on a specific Saturday and only between certain times, knowing very well a lot of estate agents do not work on Saturdays in the area. They have specifically stated that NO viewings are undertaken whilst they are living there! 

As landlords we’ve been very flexible. During the time they’ve been at the property, any issues that have arisen electrical or plumbing wise we’ve resolved within 24hours every time. They asked whether they could have a dog in the house which we allowed and not many rental properties allow for dogs in our area. 

On Friday last week, I asked them whether we could meet them over the weekend to discuss the issues face-to-face, but by the looks of things they’ve blocked my number from contacting them. We want the issues resolved immediately and amicably as possible as it may have serious implications on other projects we have.

My question is as there is no written contract in place what rights do they have?? We feel, as they’re in the letting agency game they can dictate everything as they want and are aware of the regulations better than us!

Apologies for the long post but I wanted to give you all the proper background of our case.

Thanks

The tenancy might have started off as an AST in July 2022 but on 1st December 2022 the rental agreement became a "converted occupation contract" due to the ham-fisted way the Welsh government introduced a new type of tenancy.  You had until 31st May 2023 to provide the tenants with a written occupation contract and even though it appears you have not done this it does not mean the tenants do not have any legal rights. 

You cannot give the tenants valid "no fault" notice to end the tenancy until you provide them with the converted occupation contract.  Then once you have provided them with the contract you will need to give them 6 months, yes that's right, 6 months notice that you will be going to court to get a possession order.

As well as the converted occupation contract in order to issue valid "no fault" notice you will require the following or your notice will not be valid:

• You must be registered with Rent Smart Wales - you say you are so that requirement is covered.
• You must have protected the tenant's deposit and provided the tenants with the prescribed information within 30 days of receiving the deposit.
• You have not charged the tenant with a banned letting fee or you have charged them but have since refunded the banned fee to the tenant.
• You must have provided the tenants with a valid EPC
• You must have provided working smoke alarms and where needed (gas appliances) carbon monoxide alarms
• You have provided the tenants with a current EICR
• If there are gas appliances in the property you must have provided the tenants with a current GSC

If you do not meet these requirements you will not be issuing valid notice until you have rectified and issued the relevant paperwork.

The tenants are planning on moving out by the end of next month and realistically there is nothing you can do to get them out any quicker.  If they don't want to allow viewings then you'll just need to suck that up until they move out.  You were lucky you managed to increase the rent at all given your failure to comply with the new legislation by not issuing a converted occupation contract.

_Penny_Dreadful

anselld said:

Unless Wales is somehow different a periodic tenancy continues unless new contract is agreed.  So your original contract remains in place.  What does it state about access for viewings?  Whatever it states is not necessarily easy to enforce but it would at least help to know where you stand with the contract and if they would be in breach by denying access.

Wales is different.  All the existing AST were converted to occupation contracts on 1st December 2022.

theartfullodger

B15_Donne said:

theartfullodger said:

Have you spoken to a landlord association or a solicitor regarding this matter please?

Not yet we haven’t.

Didn’t think we would need to as we took it on good faith they would be decent tenants as their working in the letting agency business!!

Prepare for pain.  I trust you have the financial AND emotional reserves to cope with tenants from hell ... for say 7 months