Changes to FCA & my bank account

TheBanker

Futuristic said:

TheBanker said:

Futuristic said:

Which bank? Would be useful for others reading in the future.

I've had no issues with Chase (withdrawals only) & Revolut (withdraw then send to normal bank acc here)

But yes I’ve experienced extensive AML checks with Santander due to crypto withdrawals. They were fined for not doing enough to combat fraud and banks are more on the hook for it so it’s not surprising.

Revolut is not a bank in the UK. They have been trying for years to obtain a banking license, but so far without sucess. There are various reasons, but there's a view that their fondness for crypto might be a contributing factor.  

Hence why I said: >withdraw then send to normal bank acc and anyways their main issue in regards to the license is the mystery around their auditors not approving their recent accounts which seems to be resolved now so we'll find out soon again. 


A lot of people on the r/BitcoinUK sub do this without issues. 

You did, but then you talked about Santander giving you grief over Crypto, which suggests you have made at least some Crypto transactions through your Santander account?

Hoenir

grumbler said:

Hoenir said:

OFuzz said:

I've been subject to multiple calls from bank regarding changes to FCA guidelines that require me to explain transactions on my bank account.

... They only have need to question people with unusual banking activity. 

Maybe that's what they need, but not what they actually do. Many people reported being interrogated that didn't have any unusual activity. A typical excuse for this is KYC, not AML.
Not that I'm saying that this is the case for the OP.

Do you know these people personally and aware of the full facts. Not just the ones people care to share. Patterns of behaviour are far from unique. People are far more predictable than they themselves imagine. Not as if if somebody else hasn't tried a similar thing before. 

TheBanker

grumbler said:

Hoenir said:

OFuzz said:

I've been subject to multiple calls from bank regarding changes to FCA guidelines that require me to explain transactions on my bank account.

... They only have need to question people with unusual banking activity. 

Maybe that's what they need, but not what they actually do. Many people reported being interrogated that didn't have any unusual activity. A typical excuse for this is KYC, not AML.
Not that I'm saying that this is the case for the OP.

KYC (Know Your Customer) is a requirement to ensure that AML (Anti-Money Laundering) controls are effective. When you open a new account and the bank ask things like the source of your wealth, expected deposits to the account etc, that forms part of their KYC checks. If they see behaviour that differs from what was expected this is a red flag. Other red flags are large transactions and certain types of transactions such as cash deposits, international payments and payments involving crypto (and many others). Not all of the red flags will be obvious - some are based on the bank's previous experience of patterns of transactions that have been found to represent money laundering.

The person's behaviour may be completely innocent, but if it looks unusual the bank are obliged to investigate which will almost always involve asking the customer where the money came from. This will usually involve updating the KYC information, which may well be out of date due to the customers' circumstances changing, or inadequte or even non-existant if it's an old account that was opened before the regulations came into force.

The FCA guidence is here: https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/FCG.pdf

OFuzz

grumbler said:

Complain to whom?
To the bank? They are under huge pressure from our beloved regulators and don't like troublesome customers with lots of crypto and cash transactions. You can just close your account instead.
To the regulators that are responsible for creating this atmosphere? Good luck...

Trading crypto is not illegal otherwise you’d not be able to do it. Not sure why you’ve assumed I have lots of crypto as I don’t. 

For context I didn’t take a punt on Bitcoin back in 2012/13 whenever it first appeared and massively regret it. I hold less than £1000 in crypto on alt coins that may or may not become the next big thing. I shouldn’t be hounded like a criminal because of it

OFuzz

TheBanker said:

grumbler said:

Hoenir said:

OFuzz said:

I've been subject to multiple calls from bank regarding changes to FCA guidelines that require me to explain transactions on my bank account.

... They only have need to question people with unusual banking activity. 

Maybe that's what they need, but not what they actually do. Many people reported being interrogated that didn't have any unusual activity. A typical excuse for this is KYC, not AML.
Not that I'm saying that this is the case for the OP.

KYC (Know Your Customer) is a requirement to ensure that AML (Anti-Money Laundering) controls are effective. When you open a new account and the bank ask things like the source of your wealth, expected deposits to the account etc, that forms part of their KYC checks. If they see behaviour that differs from what was expected this is a red flag. Other red flags are large transactions and certain types of transactions such as cash deposits, international payments and payments involving crypto (and many others). Not all of the red flags will be obvious - some are based on the bank's previous experience of patterns of transactions that have been found to represent money laundering.

The person's behaviour may be completely innocent, but if it looks unusual the bank are obliged to investigate which will almost always involve asking the customer where the money came from. This will usually involve updating the KYC information, which may well be out of date due to the customers' circumstances changing, or inadequte or even non-existant if it's an old account that was opened before the regulations came into force.

Thanks for your advice.
I'm not frustrated that I have had to answer questions, I understand it's their job.
However, I am frustrated by the continued questioning after submitting details of all transactions and holdings. On top of that I am particularly annoyed by the last call regarding my mortgage - it's held with the same bank, so they have all of the details. I feel like its a lack of process on their behalf. I work long hours and days roll into weeks and months into years. I don't have endless amounts of time during the working day to get pestered for info that's already held on their system.

OFuzz

Hoenir said:

OFuzz said:

I've been subject to multiple calls from bank regarding changes to FCA guidelines that require me to explain transactions on my bank account.

Banks are in the front line against Money Laundering.  Exposed to fines if they do not conduct the neccessary due diligence. They only have need to question people with unusual banking activity. 

What's unusual? Cash - legal tender. Crypto transactions - not illegal, provided all information on holdings and transactions.
If I trade FX, would I receive the same level of scrutiny or just because its Crypto? What about investment vehicles and funds - do they encounter multiple phone calls?
Describe what is unusual

OFuzz

Futuristic said:

Which bank? Would be useful for others reading in the future.

I've had no issues with Chase (withdrawals only) & Revolut (withdraw then send to normal bank acc here)

But yes I’ve experienced extensive AML checks with Santander due to crypto withdrawals. They were fined for not doing enough to combat fraud and banks are more on the hook for it so it’s not surprising.

Thanks for commenting but sorry I'm not sharing my bank name/details on a forum. 

OFuzz

TheBanker said:

OFuzz said:

Martin,

I've been subject to multiple calls from bank regarding changes to FCA guidelines that require me to explain transactions on my bank account.

My initial call with my bank was quite threatening and made me feel like a criminal. I'm very thick skinned so don't take offence easily but the first phone call I received put me under a lot of stress thinking I had done something illegal. Basically I bought Crypto and received a 5 figure amount via the platform (as a result of trading). For context this was in 2023.

I made a complaint to my bank who dismissed my claim saying they were only doing their job as per FCA regs.

I had to submit various statements showing the original money invested and the full transactions (from the Crypto platform I used).

After submitting this I spoke with someone else (more pleasant) and was told the case was closed - no further info required.

2 weeks later I receive another phone call. Same pattern - please explain the transactions identified on the statements provided and provide info on any new transactions and holdings. Again, submitted everything as requested and was told, no further action or info required.

2 weeks later again, I received another call - the bank have more questions for me, this time around my income and some cash transactions on my account. Again, provided all the necessary answers to their questions. I made a complaint a second time as I wasn't happy with the constant harassments and threats to close my accounts. Same standard reply again from the bank saying they've done nothing wrong except follow FCA guidelines.

Monday 19th Feb. Yet another call from my bank wanting to ask me questions about transactions on my account. This time I asked the caller to call me back with a full list of questions they want to ask me and to stop bothering me thereafter. Following the call I receive more letters, more voicemails and more texts stating my accounts will be suspended if I do not provide the necessary info.

Today, Friday 23rd, I received the next call from my bank asking if they can ask me some questions about transactions on my account. This time they want to know how I got my money for a deposit for my previous homes (21 and 12 years ago!!!), how much deposit it was, how much equity I gained, followed by more questions about cash transactions on my account (£1500 + £2000).

The questions relating to the property purchases and sales would be on their system - I use the same bank as I hold for my mortgage.

Each time, my wife receives a letter stating that unless I provide evidence of transactions our mortgage could be terminated/withdrawn and accounts closed. Each time this is giving her stress and me earache!

What recourse can I take to put a stop to these constant phone calls and further, how do I raise a complaint about the treatment I have had.

Many thanks

The banks don't like having to ask these questions any more than you like answering them. AML compliance costs an absolute fortune, takes resources away from profitable activities, upsets customers and causes complaints. But if they don't do it, the fines are huge. 

Personally I wouldn't touch crypto with a bargepole, but if you do it might be better to open a Revolut account specifically for your Crypto related transactions, to keep them away from your main banking.

Occasional small cash deposits shouldn't cause concerns, but regular large ones will. Not sure where all the cash is coming from, but if you can use bank transfers instead you won't set the alarm bells ringing as often. 

Thank you. Assume from your username and insight you were in FS, so good to know you're talking with authority

OFuzz

retiredbanker1 said:

Message to the OP

If you do not have another bank account open one up now and put some of your funds into it (do not trade crypto through it) - there will come a time when policing your account (whether you like it or not) will become a liability they no longer want and will either block your account or close it.

Thank you. I do have another account so that's good advice that I'll take on board.

OFuzz

DullGreyGuy said:

OFuzz said:

Martin

Martin sold this website a long time ago, just gets royalties for them using his image in the corner, just in case the tens of millions wasn't enough. Didnt post on the forum even when he was the owner.

OFuzz said:
What recourse can I take to put a stop to these constant phone calls and further, how do I raise a complaint about the treatment I have had.

If you feel you are being unfairly targeted in some way then put in a complaint to the company in question and you can escalate it to the Financial Ombudsman if 1) you disgree with their final response or 2) 8 weeks pass, whichever is sooner. 

Alternatively switch banks or try and identify why you are triggering their checks... not had a single call or contact from any of the 8 or so I and my company use. 

Thanks for your reply and comments.
I have to keep my account with them as it's tied to my mortgage and not looking to change that anytime soon.
I will contact the Financial Ombudsman though, as I have previously contacted the bank to question why they can't create a full list of questions and we can close this off, rather than the persistent phone calls. I got the standard "it's our job" BS.