Link Parking Claim

Savosmee

Thank you. Regarding the schedule of costs am I right that I should send it to both BW Legal and the Court?
Do I attach the receipts as well or bring them to the court hearing only?

Coupon-mad

Yes - email to both, with receipts.

Savosmee

Thank you. I have sent it.
As I have read on this forum that it's not uncommon for the other party to not appear on the day or for the hearing to have been cancelled, what do I have to do to claim my costs back if this happens?

Savosmee

UPDATE: I've lost

I had the hearing today. It was horrible. I've lost on all counts.
The judge allocated 100 + 60 additional costs + BW legal costs 
I believe what I was ordered to pay is even higher than everything that was claimed by BW and the judge made a mistake on that as well

The judge was a few hours late. Then ask the usher for the file to read it before we came in (so maybe he didn't even read it before). then we came in and clearly he had already made up his mind although he said he didn't have the Claimnt's WS and evidence so I wonder how he did. Then the advocate sent that to him by email then.

He started off by looking me explaining that the party who lose and wants to appeal would have to prove that he was wrong in law.

He then basically stated out the Claimant's points instead of the claimants doing so and then asked me what was my defence.

I then stated my points one by one:
first of the WS of the claimant being from a representative, not the claimant >judge said it's common practice and okay
about the supplementary WS served one month later > he said it was admissible as " I had received it"
about the PoC issue lacking details I mentioned Chan and the CPR number and then went on on several issues like the address being the postcode of another street behind our house which they don't manage, or the PoC not mentioning the no return rule etc > he dismissed everything one by one saying that they have identified the place although the address was not fully correct. and for the no return rule he didn't agree
about my address he said I received the claim form eventually so all good
on my lease he said the landowner and management company can make regulations and they don't need to apply for the lease to vary to do so, I insisted on that point, there was no way he didn't even look at the pages in my lease I was referring to he just said it was common practice and made perfect sense
on the fact that the vehicle moved he said that it returned within the no return period
on the fact that the first pic was in black and white and just one pic and from a distance you cannot see if someone is in the vehicle and my visitor told me they just stopped there, he said there is no evidence to the contrary (that the car was parked)
then all the points I've made in relation to poFA he dismissed one by one, about the period of parking he said that was not necessary for them to indicate, the issue with the address as before he said we could tell where it was, the circumstances of the breach same he said it was Clear enough, about certain elements missing on the pcn or ntk he said he was satisfied that everything was compliant
about the signage being everywhere just saying to display the permit but one sign he said the driver should read the sign even if it higher than all the other ones that say differently
about the small prints of £100 he said it was readable
about the additional costs not mentioned on the signage and the consumer rights act point I raised as well he said it was not contrary to the act to do so
about the legal costs I tried to mention the fact that they didn't engage in pre-action protocol by failing to reply to me and he dismissed that

it was such a horrible day and I tried my best to prepare and defend my points but nothing worked

Coupon-mad

Savosmee said:

UPDATE: I've lost

I had the hearing today. It was horrible. I've lost on all counts.
The judge allocated 100 + 60 additional costs + BW legal costs 
I believe what I was ordered to pay is even higher than everything that was claimed by BW and the judge made a mistake on that as well

The judge was a few hours late. Then ask the usher for the file to read it before we came in (so maybe he didn't even read it before). then we came in and clearly he had already made up his mind although he said he didn't have the Claimnt's WS and evidence so I wonder how he did. Then the advocate sent that to him by email then.

He started off by looking me explaining that the party who lose and wants to appeal would have to prove that he was wrong in law.

He then basically stated out the Claimant's points instead of the claimants doing so and then asked me what was my defence.

I then stated my points one by one:
first of the WS of the claimant being from a representative, not the claimant >judge said it's common practice and okay
about the supplementary WS served one month later > he said it was admissible as " I had received it"
about the PoC issue lacking details I mentioned Chan and the CPR number and then went on on several issues like the address being the postcode of another street behind our house which they don't manage, or the PoC not mentioning the no return rule etc > he dismissed everything one by one saying that they have identified the place although the address was not fully correct. and for the no return rule he didn't agree
about my address he said I received the claim form eventually so all good
on my lease he said the landowner and management company can make regulations and they don't need to apply for the lease to vary to do so, I insisted on that point, there was no way he didn't even look at the pages in my lease I was referring to he just said it was common practice and made perfect sense
on the fact that the vehicle moved he said that it returned within the no return period
on the fact that the first pic was in black and white and just one pic and from a distance you cannot see if someone is in the vehicle and my visitor told me they just stopped there, he said there is no evidence to the contrary (that the car was parked)
then all the points I've made in relation to poFA he dismissed one by one, about the period of parking he said that was not necessary for them to indicate, the issue with the address as before he said we could tell where it was, the circumstances of the breach same he said it was Clear enough, about certain elements missing on the pcn or ntk he said he was satisfied that everything was compliant
about the signage being everywhere just saying to display the permit but one sign he said the driver should read the sign even if it higher than all the other ones that say differently
about the small prints of £100 he said it was readable
about the additional costs not mentioned on the signage and the consumer rights act point I raised as well he said it was not contrary to the act to do so
about the legal costs I tried to mention the fact that they didn't engage in pre-action protocol by failing to reply to me and he dismissed that

it was such a horrible day and I tried my best to prepare and defend my points but nothing worked

How appalling. That sounds like a clueless Judge. I've just looked back at the first page of your thread and I'm amazed this was lost.

So amazed that I recommend you contact Contestor Legal to see if they can see grounds for appeal.  I think there are a few errors in this judgment but this is something you'd need a professional to handle for you, if you try.

Savosmee

So I've heard back from Contestor Legal after I detailed to them my Defence and what happened at the hearing and they are ready to take on my case and think I have "a high prospect of succeeding" however we're looking at costs of over £1,000 (between court fees, transcript fees, their fees for preparing and their fees if I want them to attend and considering how traumatised I am by the hearing I had I don't think I can do it alone again) with always the risk of losing in the Court of Appeal and having to pay the other side's legal costs on top. 

As they are making a similar claim (I mentioned 2 months ago and linked the post at some point), but this time in relation to my own parking bay for not displaying a permit, I think maybe it is worth taking this risk and spending that money and using the Appeal judgment against their other claims. On the other hadn't if I don't and try to dispute their other claim at the same county court I may end up in front of the same Judge who would obviously rule in their favour once again.

What worries me is that this judge was saying as an introduction that he knew this kind of claims very very well and he's done 100s of judgment and he only needed to have a look at the PCN to tell whether things were compliant or not. At some point when he asked BW legal advocate her response to me saying that they could not claim the £60 additional costs and she was totally lost, he pointed her to a case at the Southampton court or something like that at the moment in respect to that, she had no idea what he was talking about. But if he had judged on 100s of similar cases, am I really likely to win or will I lose a few £1,000s this time?

Coupon-mad

It doesn't go to the Court of Appeal.

There are not thousands at stake but the up-front cost is going to be high hundreds or just over a grand.  That's the stake you put in.

However, think of it this way:

- you were wrongly ordered to pay this Claimant the best part of (I'm guessing) £500 by this first rookie Judge if he added their rep's £xxx fee on top (no reason to allow that in small claims, he was wrong).

So your decision is to either:

(a)  pay the stupid amount the Judge ordered and pay it soon (no CCJ) and let it go, or

(b)  pay some fees bit by bit (when due) over the coming weeks, for expert help to reverse it. Not guaranteed but CL know what they are doing and that's why we have appeal cases to use to help others. Many were by CL and Jackson Yamba usually gets costs awarded to the Defendant.

I'd trust him if it were me, is all I can say.

I too see scope to appeal but you mustn't take this on yourself.

It just goes to the local Circuit Judge and the first Judge only has to have erred on ONE point and the decision is reversed.

The Judge needs taking down a peg IMHO and if it were me, I would appeal this one.  The Judge DOES NOT just have to take one look at a PCN to decide a residential case!  There are so many issues to consider.

he pointed her to a case at the Southampton court or something like that at the moment in respect to that, she had no idea what he was talking about.

A few years old: Britannia v Semark-Julien, a completely different case where a Circuit Judge just ASSUMED there 'must be costs for debt recovery' and the Defendant had zero defence. Literally zero defence.  I met him as I was defending another case.  Heard what he said in court which was complete tosh. That was a retail park overstay case and completely inapplicable here.

Gr1pr

As above, yes its an appeal but not at the Court of Appeal !

Savosmee

Hi all,

Just to update everyone.
I ended up appealing the judgment with the help of Contestor Legal and the Appeal took place recently and I actually won and the initial judgment was cancelled!

Thank you everyone for advising me to appeal as I was very unlikely to do so after the terrible time I had at the hearing back in then...

1505grandad

Absolutely wonderful  -  well done  -  I am sure C-m will be along soon and perhaps ask for more details of how the court case was conducted?