Being asked to pay £19,200 rent upfront in the second year!

charliehelyes

NameUnavailable said:

Am I missing something?

Last year you paid rent of 19,200 up front? This year they are asking for the same amount either up front or £1600 monthly (which = £19,200) ?

Hello they are asking me to pay £19,200 upfront again as a single installment. 

charliehelyes

housebuyer143 said:

BobT36 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Are you signing for another 12 months? If so, they can definitely ask you to pay the same way again. You probably failed referencing which is why you paid upfront so as far as the landlord is concerned you still can't afford it monthly. 
If you are not signing 12 months then they can't ask for 12 months, so pay monthly. 

If you want to sign 12 months but not pay upfront, offer to undergo referencing to prove you can now afford the monthly payments.

If they already had that much money anyway, how could they not afford to pay that same money monthly?? Especially if they're already past the initial term (proved they actually have money). 

This is just greed. 

No it's not.. Maybe they are unemployed and had just enough for 12 months upfront. The landlord has no evidence that they can afford the rent so why would they commit to 12 months without any assurances? 
You wouldn't expect a landlord to take someone with no references, but that's what you are doing here. The fact that they have been there 12 months is irrelevant because they have no payment track record.

I passed the very thorough 'goodlord' referencing system my wife's came back as conditional so not a complete fail. It was confirmed that we were both employed and they took references from our previous landlords. 

charliehelyes

housebuyer143 said:

Are you signing for another 12 months? If so, they can definitely ask you to pay the same way again. You probably failed referencing which is why you paid upfront so as far as the landlord is concerned you still can't afford it monthly. 
If you are not signing 12 months then they can't ask for 12 months, so pay monthly. 

If you want to sign 12 months but not pay upfront, offer to undergo referencing to prove you can now afford the monthly payments.

They have offered to re-reference but the problem is that my wife is currently on maternity pay. By the time the 12 month term ends (in april) my wife will be back to work. She would be able to prove her income but the referencing system they use called 'Goodlord' generally require six months of payslips but she will only have one or two by that point. Therefore, I assume her reference would come back as 'conditional' again. 

charliehelyes

To provide more clarity this is the draft rental agreement. 

The Term: The Tenancy shall be for a period of 12 Months to start on and include the 28th April 2023 and to end on and include 27th April 2024, and thereafter from Rental Period to Rental Period. The Term and the periodic tenancy that arises after it shall be referred to as "the Tenancy".

("the Term")

The Rent: £1,600.00 per month, or £1,600.00 per month

The first 10 months' rent in the sum of £16,000.00 shall be payable in advance on or before the 28th April 2023. Thereafter rent will be payable in advance at a rate of £1,600.00 per month. The first monthly payment will be due on or before the 28th February 2024.

Full details can be found in the Payment Schedule attached to this document.

Should the tenancy continue or renew, rent will be due in advance from 28th April 2024 at the same recurring frequency, unless otherwise agreed with both parties.

This is the final rental agreement.

The Term: The Tenancy shall be for a period of 12 Months to start on and include the 28th April 2023 and to end on and include 27th April 2024, and thereafter from Rental Period to Rental Period. and the periodic tenancy that arises after shall be referred

to as "the Tenancy".

("the Term")

The Rent: £19,200.00 upfront for the duration of the fixed Term, or £1,600.00 per month

The total upfront rent for 12 Months in the sum of £19,200.00 shall be payable in advance on or before the 28th April 2023.

Full details can be found in the Payment Schedule attached to this document.

Should the tenancy continue or renew, rent will be due in advance from 28th April 2024 at the same recurring frequency, unless otherwise agreed with both parties.

housebuyer143

charliehelyes said:

housebuyer143 said:

Are you signing for another 12 months? If so, they can definitely ask you to pay the same way again. You probably failed referencing which is why you paid upfront so as far as the landlord is concerned you still can't afford it monthly. 
If you are not signing 12 months then they can't ask for 12 months, so pay monthly. 

If you want to sign 12 months but not pay upfront, offer to undergo referencing to prove you can now afford the monthly payments.

They have offered to re-reference but the problem is that my wife is currently on maternity pay. By the time the 12 month term ends (in april) my wife will be back to work. She would be able to prove her income but the referencing system they use called 'Goodlord' generally require six months of payslips but she will only have one or two by that point. Therefore, I assume her reference would come back as 'conditional' again. 

Not necessarily. Sometimes they have allowances if someone is due to go back to work from maternity or has just gone back. You could always ask them and if you are confident you will pass then undergo it. 

BobT36

housebuyer143 said:

BobT36 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Are you signing for another 12 months? If so, they can definitely ask you to pay the same way again. You probably failed referencing which is why you paid upfront so as far as the landlord is concerned you still can't afford it monthly. 
If you are not signing 12 months then they can't ask for 12 months, so pay monthly. 

If you want to sign 12 months but not pay upfront, offer to undergo referencing to prove you can now afford the monthly payments.

If they already had that much money anyway, how could they not afford to pay that same money monthly?? Especially if they're already past the initial term (proved they actually have money). 

This is just greed. 

No it's not.. Maybe they are unemployed and had just enough for 12 months upfront. The landlord has no evidence that they can afford the rent so why would they commit to 12 months without any assurances? 
You wouldn't expect a landlord to take someone with no references, but that's what you are doing here. The fact that they have been there 12 months is irrelevant because they have no payment track record.

Because if they have 12 months worth of money (and can prove it) to pay upfront, then they could perfectly well pay that SAME money (split over 12 months), instead. The difference being it will be earning interest in the tenant's bank and not the landlord's. 

If I was being expected to pay that much upfront I'd be expecting a discount. It's getting to the point that it's equivalent to a bloody mortgage.

Sure they could end up spending it instead but that then becomes rent arrears and there's processes for that. As long as they can prove they have the amount of money to cover 12 months, there's absolutely no need to pay it up-front, especially if they're not new tenants and have already proven good character. 

Greed.

gazfocus

I would decline being re-referenced and say that as per the current tenancy, you’d prefer to go onto a periodic tenancy and pay the rent at £1,600 per month. I may even clarify that my position is non negotiable. 

You’re already a tenant in the property, you already have possession of the property so personally (as a landlord myself) I don’t see the point in you being re-referenced when you’re willing to pay the rent monthly as presumably your income/affordability would have passed first time round otherwise they wouldn’t have offered you the house. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is just the letting agents trying to get all their commission upfront. 

housebuyer143

gazfocus said:

I would decline being re-referenced and say that as per the current tenancy, you’d prefer to go onto a periodic tenancy and pay the rent at £1,600 per month. I may even clarify that my position is non negotiable. 

You’re already a tenant in the property, you already have possession of the property so personally (as a landlord myself) I don’t see the point in you being re-referenced when you’re willing to pay the rent monthly as presumably your income/affordability would have passed first time round otherwise they wouldn’t have offered you the house. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is just the letting agents trying to get all their commission upfront. 

I tend to agree that if you told them you were going periodic and paying monthly, they almost certainly will at least give it a go, because it would take months to evict you and its a stupid thing to do if you are paying. 
 
I as a landlord would not agree 12 months without references that have passed, only because they cant qualify for rent protection and things like that, that they may want. Yes, you can evict someone with rent arrears through the courts on a S8, but it isn't something anyone wants to do, so best to ensure everything checks out before committing. 

loubel

Are they saying that the rental period for the periodic tenancy starting after the initial 12 months will be another 12 months? Or are they asking you to sign a new tenancy? 

Spendless

charliehelyes said:

To provide more clarity this is the draft rental agreement. 

The Term: The Tenancy shall be for a period of 12 Months to start on and include the 28th April 2023 and to end on and include 27th April 2024, and thereafter from Rental Period to Rental Period. The Term and the periodic tenancy that arises after it shall be referred to as "the Tenancy".

("the Term")

The Rent: £1,600.00 per month, or £1,600.00 per month

The first 10 months' rent in the sum of £16,000.00 shall be payable in advance on or before the 28th April 2023. Thereafter rent will be payable in advance at a rate of £1,600.00 per month. The first monthly payment will be due on or before the 28th February 2024.

Full details can be found in the Payment Schedule attached to this document.

Should the tenancy continue or renew, rent will be due in advance from 28th April 2024 at the same recurring frequency, unless otherwise agreed with both parties.

This is the final rental agreement.

The Term: The Tenancy shall be for a period of 12 Months to start on and include the 28th April 2023 and to end on and include 27th April 2024, and thereafter from Rental Period to Rental Period. and the periodic tenancy that arises after shall be referred

to as "the Tenancy".

("the Term")

The Rent: £19,200.00 upfront for the duration of the fixed Term, or £1,600.00 per month

The total upfront rent for 12 Months in the sum of £19,200.00 shall be payable in advance on or before the 28th April 2023.

Full details can be found in the Payment Schedule attached to this document.

Should the tenancy continue or renew, rent will be due in advance from 28th April 2024 at the same recurring frequency, unless otherwise agreed with both parties.

I'm not reading this in the same light because they have an included an 'or' that I have bolded. I read the next sentence as IF you are paying the total upfront rent £19,200 is due on or before 28th April. Otherwise why include the word or?

What does the attached  payment schedule actually say?