Speed camera calibration

SephiaBB

My wife was recently sent a notice of intended prosecution for speeding. We have gone online to the police website. However when we try to access and look at the camera calibration certificate we get a message saying it is not available and may have been removed. We sent a query via the online form, requesting access to the certificate but received no response. Obviously there is a time limit for our response. Of course we have no evidence of our speed. The speed limit was 40mph, the prosecution notice states we were doing 46 mph. 
My query to the forum is how do we stand regarding the calibration certificate not being available? 
Thanks

molerat

https://www.speedingfinesuk.co.uk/speeding_fines_evidence.htm

Can I request the calibration certificate for the speed camera/equipment?

Yes. However, on the vast majority of cases, there is no obligation upon the Police to disclose evidence until the case gets to Court. That said, if you persevere, you should be able to obtain same from the Police on a voluntary basis. Many Police forces will post copies of the Calibration Certificate on their website.

So in law you need to challenge the offence in court where the evidence of calibration will be provided.  Unless they will provide it by asking nicely the only other way would be with a FOI request which will obviously take time and may not deliver what you want according to a FOI rebuttal by Police Scotland.

Keep_pedalling

At the moment the priority is to reply to the NIP naming the driver. Failing to do so will lumber your wife with 6 points for failing to name the driver

Car_54

Contrary to popular belief, an out-of-date (or even non-existent) does not automatically provide a defence.

The law assumes that the camera was working as designed, and the onus would be on the OP to prove (on the balance of probabilities) that it was not. 

Going to court on that basis would mean giving up any options of a course or fixed penalty, and risking a much higher fine and costs.

TooManyPoints

You need to be careful with the "our" and "we" aspect of this. At present it is only your wife who is being asked to do anything. The document which needs a response is not the NIP but the accompanying "request for driver's details", which may be printed on the same sheet of paper as the NIP, but is a different document. The driver will then almost certainly be offered a course for that speed (provided he or she has not done one in the previous three years and the offence was not in Scotland). This will cost around £100 plus a bit of time, but no points. The alternative is a fixed penalty of £100 and three points. The police have no obligation to provide evidence when making these offers and usually don't beyond that which they offer along with the NIP and request for driver's details.

Mildly_Miffed

Has she had an NIP, or just an s172 request to identify the driver?

I presume the car was in that location at that time?

If it's an s172, then all they are asking at the moment is who was driving it. Tell them. Things will get a lot worse for her if she doesn't.

Once you've done that, the acknowledged driver will get their NIP, and (probably) the choice of a course, a fixed penalty, or a day in court.

If she's absolutely adamant that the car was not exceeding 40mph, she should take the day in court. But she'd better have more proof than "the certificate wasn't on the website"...

facade

Possibly the confusion is because those of us who have worked in measurement know that you cannot use a piece of measuring equipment when it's calibration certificate has expired.

We also know that if the certificate expired last month that doesn't mean it has suddenly become inaccurate!

This is one reason for the 10%+2mph threshold for prosecution, to be found not guilty of exceeding 40mph, you have to show that the camera is likely reading more than 15% over the actual speed, which without an admission from the manufacturer that the cameras are complete rubbish and drift by more than 15% in whatever time has elapsed since expiration, would require expensive expert tests on the camera (it won't happen)

It is unfortunate that the OP was right on the threshold for prosecution, but to be found not guilty they have to show that they were doing less than 40mph not 46 (the limit is 40, not 45.999), the fact that a prosecution wouldn't have been made at 45.999 is immaterial when one for exceeding 40 is already in process.

As advised, it is best to name the driver as required and then the driver accepts the likely offer of a course.

RandomTourist

If the driver wishes to challenge the alleged offence they need to (1) obey the S172 request to nominate themselves and then (2) plead not guilty and go to court. A Not Guilty plea followed by the (nearly inevitable) conviction will entail court costs in addition to the fine and points. This could be a very expensive day. Alternatively, get the paperwork done quickly and accept the offer of a course - cheaper, no points, don't have to attend court.

MobileSaver

SephiaBB said:

My query to the forum is how do we stand regarding the calibration certificate not being available?

I wouldn't waste your time or energy on this.

If you decline any £100 fixed penalty or speed awareness course offer then you will end up in court and the prosecution has to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that you were speeding; if your only defence is that the calibration certificate is not available then you will almost certainly lose and are likely to end up with costs of around £600 on top of the speeding fine and points. 

Some fights are worth fighting, this isn't one of them (unless you genuinely believe you were not exceeding 40mph and have some sort of persuasive evidence.)

mr_stripey

Looks like the OP has pasted and ran anyway. Maybe they were in a hurry !

Nasqueron

mr_stripey said:

Looks like the OP has pasted and ran anyway. Maybe they were in a hurry !

Probably at 45.9999mph