Course Cancellation Fee - no money paid

MobileSaver

Sauropod8 said:

essentially saying that I did agree to dates and knew the cost, but I am genuinely confused as to when either of these were told to me with any certainty.

As has been mentioned already, a contract does not have to be in writing and can be purely verbal although it's obviously harder to prove either way.

The problem here with your last admission is it sounds like in court the centre would state categorically that you did agree to pay £xxxx for a course in 2024 and you would not be able to say hand on heart that you didn't. Being "genuinely confused as to when either of these were told to me with any certainty" sounds quite woolly and as if you are not sure which would not be in your favour in court.

Having said that, while not necessarily strictly applicable, the website terms and conditions may work in your favour. It may be worth pushing back in writing quoting their own terms and conditions and stating that you have not made full payment and so your place on the course cannot have been confirmed so there's nothing for you to cancel...

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

ArbitraryRandom said:

I would suggest stopping casual conversations about it and putting something in writing. 

Only you can judge how important this relationship is to you (if you can complete your course when you're ready somewhere else) - so you might want to take a different approach, but this is the outline of what I would write: 

Dear (Centre manager or person you've been talking to), 

I am writing to dispute the cancellation fee associated with the (course name) which was scheduled by your centre for (date). As brief summary: 

- On (date) I expressed interest in (course name) verbally, but at no point did I formally commit to enrolment.
- Over the next several months, you attempted to arrange the course multiple times without providing concrete details, such as dates, duration, or location.
- The first time I was informed a date and location had been selected was when these details came with an invoice on January 13, 2024.
- At this time I learned the course was located outside the area (in a different region?) and would require a 7-day commitment that I would be unable to accommodate at such short notice.
- As such, I promptly communicated on (date) I would not be able to attend and declined a proposed finance option.

Now, I am informed of a 90% cancellation fee from the trainer, totalling over £1000, and your intention to pass this fee onto me. Furthermore, you are threatening legal action for non-payment of the invoice.

I would like to emphasise the following points: 

1. I was never provided with clear information regarding the course details, including dates, duration, and location, during any informal conversations about my interest in this course; 
2. The financial and logistical constraints, including the location and duration of the course, were not disclosed until after I received the invoice;
3. As such, the verbal communication about potential February dates did not constitute a confirmation or commitment on my part; 
4. If you are asserting that the initial conversation in which I expressed my interest in the course constituted a binding contract, you failed to provide me with any clear information about the terms of the contract, including the main characteristics of the service (in this case the date and location), the total price, and my cancellation rights/any costs that I may be liable for on cancellation, as required by the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 for on-premisis agreement.  

In summary, I do not believe I hold any liability for any cancelation costs that may be due as a result of you booking the trainer before confirming sufficient students were available to attend. 

Kind Regards, 

(Grumpy person who did not get enough sleep last night)

Again, that is what I would write - I suggest someone like @the_lunatic_in_the_attic have a look at it to correct any mistakes I've made re the regs (and maybe chip in on if to leave point 4 out entirely?)  

Generally the letter seems good to me

It's just that it sort of reads as if OP admits they had a contract and if they did they'd be liable for losses as a result of the breach, CCRs require the info but it doesn't have to be verbal and can be implied so much more tricky than distance/off premises which requires some form of durable info. 

I think if it were me I'd go with what @Olinda99 said first and see how they respond to that.

OP could perhaps alternatively argue the terms of the contract have changed and they haven't agreed to the changes (which should be obvious) and as such the contract is no longer binding. 

Cloth_of_Gold

ArbitraryRandom said:

Allowing we only have your account/best recollection to go on, definitely.

From what you've said, you had no direct communication with the trainer - so you can't have a contract with the trainer. 

That means if the centre want to pass the cost from the trainer on to you, they have to prove you entered into a contract with them that explicitly allows them to do so... 

If you wanted to repair the relationship then you could maybe negotiate some part payment due to 'miscommunication', but TBH if you can do this course elsewhere/with a more professional outfit and at the right time for you then it seems a no brainer to just firmly reject and leave the ball in their court. 

I wouldn't want to have a relationship with a training centre that, when I told them I couldn't afford a course, advised me to sell things.

I would deny that any contract was formed and therefore there is nothing for you to pay. If they believe differently I would ask them to supply their evidence.

Sauropod8

Thanks again.
MobileSaver, I know this is going to come down to a "he said, she said" kind of argument 😭
By genuinely confused, I mean that... I cannot recall being told the dates in definite, and 100% didn't know the location was 3hrs away! Initial casual conversations implied a course could be run around working full time, but as I mentioned the previous two courses (for which it turns out I wasn't eligible?) were cancelled. 

But yes, I'm confused where this will go and which side is in the right.
I am sad that the centre which has previously helped me is now acting this way, and has ignored my telling them I can't do it, and now it has got to the point of the trainer charging the cancellation fee to them. 

ArbitraryRandom

I would suggest they are also not 100% sure... but they won't admit that, so neither should you. 

I'd recommend you take the firm stance that you did not know and did not agree - leave it to them to prove otherwise.  

born_again

Sauropod8 said:

Thanks again.
MobileSaver, I know this is going to come down to a "he said, she said" kind of argument 😭
By genuinely confused, I mean that... I cannot recall being told the dates in definite, and 100% didn't know the location was 3hrs away! Initial casual conversations implied a course could be run around working full time, but as I mentioned the previous two courses (for which it turns out I wasn't eligible?) were cancelled. 

But yes, I'm confused where this will go and which side is in the right.
I am sad that the centre which has previously helped me is now acting this way, and has ignored my telling them I can't do it, and now it has got to the point of the trainer charging the cancellation fee to them. 

Is this training co one that outsources to the trainers? 
So all they do is introduce you to a trainer, who actually takes the fee & runs the course.

pinkshoes

@Sauropod8 The initial course - where was the location? I assume close to you?

From what you have written, there was no confirmation of a place on a SPECIFIC course, as they had given you no location, venue etc...

A change of location to a venue 3 hours away would count as a significant change and a right to cancel.

If you're going to keep mentioning the "can't afford it" thing, then make sure this is based on the location 3 hours away (and travel/accommodation costs).

I'd also quote their own T&Cs at them to show no confirmation was made. 

It does sound like there was a verbal agreement in place to complete the course though, albeit at a time and date convenient to you. They can't just choose a random time, date and location and expect you to agree to it.

Sauropod8

born_again said:

Sauropod8 said:

Thanks again.
MobileSaver, I know this is going to come down to a "he said, she said" kind of argument 😭
By genuinely confused, I mean that... I cannot recall being told the dates in definite, and 100% didn't know the location was 3hrs away! Initial casual conversations implied a course could be run around working full time, but as I mentioned the previous two courses (for which it turns out I wasn't eligible?) were cancelled. 

But yes, I'm confused where this will go and which side is in the right.
I am sad that the centre which has previously helped me is now acting this way, and has ignored my telling them I can't do it, and now it has got to the point of the trainer charging the cancellation fee to them. 

Is this training co one that outsources to the trainers? 
So all they do is introduce you to a trainer, who actually takes the fee & runs the course.

Yes, essentially. The centre knows the trainer (who is not affiliated with the centre) and books a trainer to conduct the training course.

Pinkshoes - yes originally when I was told about the November course, it was told to me it would be part-time to fit around full-time work, and be held AT the training centre itself. This course did not run as the training centre fell out with the trainer.
The course in December was being run by another trainer already with 3 candidates, and the centre asked me if I wanted a place and I said no. But for some reason, the training centre are now quoting in their email that I have been booked on to two courses already.