Reconciling savings interest amount

wmb194

poppystar said:

BooJewels said:

I've been thinking about this myself today too.  I received a maturity statement from NS&I for a Guaranteed Income Bond that matured on 9th Feb and I auto-renewed into a new one.  It has a statement of all transactions for the 'final year' (it was a 1 year product) starting on 9th May - with 10 interest payments listed.  It states below this the interest earned in the 23/24 tax year as the total of those 10 payments. 

I already included the March interest payment on my 22/23 return and as Aprils was paid on 9th April, I've already included it in my list ready for my 23/24 figures.  So if NS&I report their number to HMRC, we're about £99 wrong from the outset.  It doesn't fill me with great confidence that it can possibly reconcile going forwards - when I have many accounts that pay monthly interest.   I record every penny I actually receive between 6th April to the next 5th April - but HMRC always seem able to find new ways to make things more complicated than they need to be. I've been trying to sort my NI for over 3 years.

That could be a factor as mine matured on 2 Feb. On my spreadsheet I’ve also allocated the interest to the year in which it arrived in the nominated account like you have. So I would have included the first month - and probably the second too as it would have arrived before 6th April - in 22/23. I mean the money had actually been given to me by then so that seemed in the spirit of it counting in the year you had access! Will go check the statement which is lurking in the online documents. 

It arises for tax when it's credited to the savings account, not when it arrives in your nominated account.

Bigwheels1111

I’ve just had my last fixed rate pay out yesterday, two months of easy access payments to go.
I’m ready to file my self assessment as breaching 10k limit for interest.
This should mean I have no issues, who knows.
Even if interest was below 10k I would still file as HMRC could not find their rear end with both hands.

BooJewels

wmb194 said:

poppystar said:

BooJewels said:

I've been thinking about this myself today too.  I received a maturity statement from NS&I for a Guaranteed Income Bond that matured on 9th Feb and I auto-renewed into a new one.  It has a statement of all transactions for the 'final year' (it was a 1 year product) starting on 9th May - with 10 interest payments listed.  It states below this the interest earned in the 23/24 tax year as the total of those 10 payments. 

I already included the March interest payment on my 22/23 return and as Aprils was paid on 9th April, I've already included it in my list ready for my 23/24 figures.  So if NS&I report their number to HMRC, we're about £99 wrong from the outset.  It doesn't fill me with great confidence that it can possibly reconcile going forwards - when I have many accounts that pay monthly interest.   I record every penny I actually receive between 6th April to the next 5th April - but HMRC always seem able to find new ways to make things more complicated than they need to be. I've been trying to sort my NI for over 3 years.

That could be a factor as mine matured on 2 Feb. On my spreadsheet I’ve also allocated the interest to the year in which it arrived in the nominated account like you have. So I would have included the first month - and probably the second too as it would have arrived before 6th April - in 22/23. I mean the money had actually been given to me by then so that seemed in the spirit of it counting in the year you had access! Will go check the statement which is lurking in the online documents. 

It arises for tax when it's credited to the savings account, not when it arrives in your nominated account.

That would explain my own experience then, if that's how it happens - as the NS&I one I mentioned is usually credited to the Bond itself on either the 5th or 6th of the month and then appears in my nominated account on the 9th.  Which might explain why April isn't on the tax list - if actually credited on the 5th.  So I'll still be £99 out - but for 22/23, not 23/24.

wmb194

BooJewels said:

wmb194 said:

poppystar said:

BooJewels said:

I've been thinking about this myself today too.  I received a maturity statement from NS&I for a Guaranteed Income Bond that matured on 9th Feb and I auto-renewed into a new one.  It has a statement of all transactions for the 'final year' (it was a 1 year product) starting on 9th May - with 10 interest payments listed.  It states below this the interest earned in the 23/24 tax year as the total of those 10 payments. 

I already included the March interest payment on my 22/23 return and as Aprils was paid on 9th April, I've already included it in my list ready for my 23/24 figures.  So if NS&I report their number to HMRC, we're about £99 wrong from the outset.  It doesn't fill me with great confidence that it can possibly reconcile going forwards - when I have many accounts that pay monthly interest.   I record every penny I actually receive between 6th April to the next 5th April - but HMRC always seem able to find new ways to make things more complicated than they need to be. I've been trying to sort my NI for over 3 years.

That could be a factor as mine matured on 2 Feb. On my spreadsheet I’ve also allocated the interest to the year in which it arrived in the nominated account like you have. So I would have included the first month - and probably the second too as it would have arrived before 6th April - in 22/23. I mean the money had actually been given to me by then so that seemed in the spirit of it counting in the year you had access! Will go check the statement which is lurking in the online documents. 

It arises for tax when it's credited to the savings account, not when it arrives in your nominated account.

That would explain my own experience then, if that's how it happens - as the NS&I one I mentioned is usually credited to the Bond itself on either the 5th or 6th of the month and then appears in my nominated account on the 9th.  Which might explain why April isn't on the tax list - if actually credited on the 5th.  So I'll still be £99 out - but for 22/23, not 23/24.

Yup. It usually doesn’t matter but you have to be extremely careful to get it right when you’re on the cusp of a tax year.

poppystar

wmb194 said:

poppystar said:f

BooJewels said:

I've been thinking about this myself today too.  I received a maturity statement from NS&I for a Guaranteed Income Bond that matured on 9th Feb and I auto-renewed into a new one.  It has a statement of all transactions for the 'final year' (it was a 1 year product) starting on 9th May - with 10 interest payments listed.  It states below this the interest earned in the 23/24 tax year as the total of those 10 payments. 

I already included the March interest payment on my 22/23 return and as Aprils was paid on 9th April, I've already included it in my list ready for my 23/24 figures.  So if NS&I report their number to HMRC, we're about £99 wrong from the outset.  It doesn't fill me with great confidence that it can possibly reconcile going forwards - when I have many accounts that pay monthly interest.   I record every penny I actually receive between 6th April to the next 5th April - but HMRC always seem able to find new ways to make things more complicated than they need to be. I've been trying to sort my NI for over 3 years.

That could be a factor as mine matured on 2 Feb. On my spreadsheet I’ve also allocated the interest to the year in which it arrived in the nominated account like you have. So I would have included the first month - and probably the second too as it would have arrived before 6th April - in 22/23. I mean the money had actually been given to me by then so that seemed in the spirit of it counting in the year you had access! Will go check the statement which is lurking in the online documents. 

It arises for tax when it's credited to the savings account, not when it arrives in your nominated account.

Ok so that clearly isn’t the issue as I have counted that accurately by including it in the 22/23 year - it’s credited before going to the nominated account, both happened before 5th April. My records show more interest than HMRC figures do so it seems I’m looking for interest they have not picked up. My first check was on the interest gained around the change of financial year but no single payment is near the value and I’ve checked all the interest statements to ensure that the institutions are putting payments in the same year as I’ve allocated them. There’s also no total like it from any one account that would indicate that account hadn’t been declared to them. I guess I shall spend the start of next week on the phone to HMRC. 

Albermarle

Slinky said:

Are you accounting for interest in the year you actually have access to it? 

Interest added to an account during a fixed term should be declared when you actually get access to it, not when the bank credit it to the account. If you can't get your hands on the interest, it's not declarable until the year in which you can.

There are a couple of very long threads on this topic.

What you say is theoretically true, and if you are filling in a Self assessment form this would be the right way to report the interest. However in practice many savings providers report the interest annually to HMRC,  and HMRC use that annual interest to calculate your tax, especially if you are not filling in a tax return.
It is a mess, and HMRC themselves seem confused about it.

BooJewels

wmb194 said:

BooJewels said:

wmb194 said:

poppystar said:

BooJewels said:

I've been thinking about this myself today too.  I received a maturity statement from NS&I for a Guaranteed Income Bond that matured on 9th Feb and I auto-renewed into a new one.  It has a statement of all transactions for the 'final year' (it was a 1 year product) starting on 9th May - with 10 interest payments listed.  It states below this the interest earned in the 23/24 tax year as the total of those 10 payments. 

I already included the March interest payment on my 22/23 return and as Aprils was paid on 9th April, I've already included it in my list ready for my 23/24 figures.  So if NS&I report their number to HMRC, we're about £99 wrong from the outset.  It doesn't fill me with great confidence that it can possibly reconcile going forwards - when I have many accounts that pay monthly interest.   I record every penny I actually receive between 6th April to the next 5th April - but HMRC always seem able to find new ways to make things more complicated than they need to be. I've been trying to sort my NI for over 3 years.

That could be a factor as mine matured on 2 Feb. On my spreadsheet I’ve also allocated the interest to the year in which it arrived in the nominated account like you have. So I would have included the first month - and probably the second too as it would have arrived before 6th April - in 22/23. I mean the money had actually been given to me by then so that seemed in the spirit of it counting in the year you had access! Will go check the statement which is lurking in the online documents. 

It arises for tax when it's credited to the savings account, not when it arrives in your nominated account.

That would explain my own experience then, if that's how it happens - as the NS&I one I mentioned is usually credited to the Bond itself on either the 5th or 6th of the month and then appears in my nominated account on the 9th.  Which might explain why April isn't on the tax list - if actually credited on the 5th.  So I'll still be £99 out - but for 22/23, not 23/24.

Yup. It usually doesn’t matter but you have to be extremely careful to get it right when you’re on the cusp of a tax year.

Note to future self - try not to open new accounts around the 5th of the month.

I'm not personally going to try and adjust this particular one as for 22/23 I was nowhere near paying any tax anyway and whilst much closer for 23/24, still nothing to pay - so as long as I've ultimately declared everything I've received, I'm not going to cause another complication with HMRC. But I'll get it right for this April and going forwards.  I've another fix that pays me on 7th that is likely to span the 5th - so I'll log in and check when that one is credited too.

The funny thing is, the NS&I printed statement puts it as 'interest capitalisation' on the 9th, not the 5th where it usually shows that in my online statement.  So it's no wonder these things cause confusion.

poppystar

BooJewels said:

wmb194 said:

BooJewels said:

wmb194 said:

poppystar said:

BooJewels said:

I've been thinking about this myself today too.  I received a maturity statement from NS&I for a Guaranteed Income Bond that matured on 9th Feb and I auto-renewed into a new one.  It has a statement of all transactions for the 'final year' (it was a 1 year product) starting on 9th May - with 10 interest payments listed.  It states below this the interest earned in the 23/24 tax year as the total of those 10 payments. 

I already included the March interest payment on my 22/23 return and as Aprils was paid on 9th April, I've already included it in my list ready for my 23/24 figures.  So if NS&I report their number to HMRC, we're about £99 wrong from the outset.  It doesn't fill me with great confidence that it can possibly reconcile going forwards - when I have many accounts that pay monthly interest.   I record every penny I actually receive between 6th April to the next 5th April - but HMRC always seem able to find new ways to make things more complicated than they need to be. I've been trying to sort my NI for over 3 years.

That could be a factor as mine matured on 2 Feb. On my spreadsheet I’ve also allocated the interest to the year in which it arrived in the nominated account like you have. So I would have included the first month - and probably the second too as it would have arrived before 6th April - in 22/23. I mean the money had actually been given to me by then so that seemed in the spirit of it counting in the year you had access! Will go check the statement which is lurking in the online documents. 

It arises for tax when it's credited to the savings account, not when it arrives in your nominated account.

That would explain my own experience then, if that's how it happens - as the NS&I one I mentioned is usually credited to the Bond itself on either the 5th or 6th of the month and then appears in my nominated account on the 9th.  Which might explain why April isn't on the tax list - if actually credited on the 5th.  So I'll still be £99 out - but for 22/23, not 23/24.

Yup. It usually doesn’t matter but you have to be extremely careful to get it right when you’re on the cusp of a tax year.

Note to future self - try not to open new accounts around the 5th of the month.


The funny thing is, the NS&I printed statement puts it as 'interest capitalisation' on the 9th, not the 5th where it usually shows that in my online statement.  So it's no wonder these things cause confusion.

As I was checking through this months figures yesterday I saw the interest for the other GIB I have was showing for this February in the NS&I account and also in my current account - clearly they have some form of lag in the system!! 

I like monthly interest but annual interest clearly does have its advantages if not due in the first week of April. 

BooJewels

I've decided that whatever this NS&I date discrepancy is, it actually helps me a smidge (not that I really need it) as I could show - if asked - why I'd put those payments into the years that I have.  It should actually be the 9th, as that was the date the account was opened and matured - but it shows in my online account on the 5th - so I'm going to treat that as advance notice.

poppystar

Just a quick update following speaking to HMRC. Two accounts that were closed during the year were missed by them. One I’d opened and closed during the year and one that I’d had for years and she couldn’t see any evidence of it being counted even in the previous year  - but she didn’t jump at trying to get any backdated tax for that at the same time. 

Didn’t quite follow the explanation but they aren’t going to change the coding they’d given me for the coming year to add this in instead it would be collected in 25/26. I’m relying on them to have kept the notes on that as from next year I’ll be self assessing. 

Thanks to you all for your input.