Scottish Power / Economy 7 and smart meters

Pixie_Cosmo

Hi all,

Hoping some folk here might have come across my queries and are able to advise please?

I have E7 and been emailed by SP several times about changing to a smart meter. I'm reluctant to do so due to hearing many tales of woe over smart meter problems, specifically with E7 readings.

Q1 Is this a major problem, or have people here had installed with no issues please? Am I worrying too much basically!

I am also concerned SP will change my E7 hours. Currently I have 4 hours overnight 3-7am, and 3 hours in the afternoon. Suits me perfectly as I mainly work from home and can cook on cheap rate or do a load of washing. I can also have my bedroom storage heater just to come on overnight, or my living room one to come on in the afternoon. They are total energy vampires, despite being modern ones so I need to keep usage down as much as I can.

My winter bill goes up by £75-100 per month, and that's me being careful. I also have a multifuel stove which heats hot water. To go to a block of 7 hours overnight would mean me not using the storage heaters unless it's snowmageddon outside.

Q2 Has anyone with similar E7 times had their hours changed going on a Smart Meter please?

Thank you

Swipe

You will very likely lose your multi slots if you change to a smart meter. So in your case, it's better to avoid at all costs for as long as you can if that won't suit you.

Scot_39

Honest answer - dont know. But think its very wise to try to find out before switching - and not volunteer in advance.

Scottish Power has a lot of bespoke (E7 style but not standard E7) multirate deals for electricity.

The 4+3 split times above are dedjnitely not standard DNO E7 regional timings - see Scottish Power's own take on these - but their only a guide at best.

There is also a list further down the page of some of their more bespoke tariffs (comfort, rts based weathercall etc) here 

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/energy-efficiency/energy-efficiency-toolkit/electric-heating

Towards the bottom of their descriptions is a regional special "twin heat" tariff - or rather 1 tariff, 2 timing options, that is split 4+3.  That says region 13 (NWales and Mersey / parts of Cheshire etc ?  Old MWEB area ) - so possibly an inherited legacy deal from old regional supplier.  You might even find some customer service people aren't aware of such a special (I have had some think E7 and E10 were same thing at EOn in sistant past).

Could that be your tariff / region ?

Note from the top of the table the standard SP E7 DNO times are 00:30 to 07:30 for region 13 - not the 4+3 split.

You would have to check your bill for exact tariff / region code to see if it matches and I suspect ask Scottish Power about any replacement - I'd get it in writing by messaging etc rather than verbal what their plans are for your specific set-up - before proceeding - but in the end you may have no real option to accept a new meter / deal.

But it's unclear to me what Ofgem protections they insist re non standard legacy tariffs (most of the former start-up new suppliers only offered flat and standard e7 variants for instance.)

Whilst it should be possible for smets2 meter to support your 2 time zones - it would need supplier to want to support the deal - and then have a special mode to be configured to do so.  Or if they supported 1/2 hour billing - they could mimic the billing.  But then would still need to control the alcs (meter based restricted time active circuits) timing if you need it

I for instance have a smart meter that supports 3 off peak periods for my E10 - a rts replacement tariff in my case  - for old legacy customer only AFAIK at EOn.  Exact same model as they used for E7 at time. That's  - 5 hrs overnight 3 afternoon and 2 evening - but it's an old smets1 model. 
But one poster here who had E10 with EOn, reported he lost it when a standard E7 configured smart meter was installed as an upgrade, despite ombudsman initial support.

Many modern nsh panels - and many standard immersion water tanks should be sized for a typical daily load - so might will cope with E7.

What generation of nsh do you have ?

But I pay more for E10 than my supplier charges for E7 - for the 3 extra hours - and especially like how the 2 added zones in afternoon and evening boost ( I think) works better with my c30 year old NSH. 

macman

I have an elderly relative who had to be dissuaded from installing smart meters. She was with Ovo, on an old E10 legacy tariff from the SSE era, and I could not get confirmation from Octopus that a new SMETS2 meter would support E10.

Pixie_Cosmo

@Scot_39 thanks for your helpful answer - yes we're in an old Manweb region! It used to have alternate weeks one twin time from 9pm -1am, then another week in the morning 3am to 7am which we had to keep up with! I'd be gutted to lose my afternoon slot as it saves me so much money. SP keep saying my 'meter is too old' etc and I need to get a SM. Good plan to get any changes in writing.

My immersion heater isn't on the E7 circuit like the storage heaters, but I have it timed to come on off peak. No idea what panel I have sorry.

Pixie_Cosmo

macman said:

I have an elderly relative who had to be dissuaded from installing smart meters. She was with Ovo, on an old E10 legacy tariff from the SSE era, and I could not get confirmation from Octopus that a new SMETS2 meter would support E10.

It's never to the customer's advantage is it?

QrizB

macman said:

I have an elderly relative who had to be dissuaded from installing smart meters. She was with Ovo, on an old E10 legacy tariff from the SSE era, and I could not get confirmation from Octopus that a new SMETS2 meter would support E10.

I don't think Octopus have an E10 tariff.

If they're getting E10 hours but with an E7 tariff, they'rein a fortunate but non-contractual position.

Ovo does offer Smart Economy 9, which gives three cheaper hours for three separate periods:
https://www.ovoenergy.com/help/article/electric-heating/economy-9

(Is this your relative with panel heaters? How are they getting on?)

Pixie_Cosmo said:

I am also concerned SP will change my E7 hours. Currently I have 4 hours overnight 3-7am, and 3 hours in the afternoon. Suits me perfectly as I mainly work from home and can cook on cheap rate or do a load of washing.

If (as you state) your storage heaters are modern ones, and if they were correctly sized for E7 when installed, they should work fine with seven overnight hours.
Alternatively there are tariffs like Ovo's Smart Economy 9, mentioned above.

If you want any help working out the likely effects of changing tariff, we can usually make some suggestions if you share your tariff and usage details.

Pixie_Cosmo

QrizB said

If (as you state) your storage heaters are modern ones, and if they were correctly sized for E7 when installed, they should work fine with seven overnight hours.

They are fine for 7 hours charging, I just can't afford to have them on 7 hours a day instead of four. Not the most recent modern ones sadly. I looked at those programmable ones but they are very expensive for me to buy. I looked at maybe installing electric central heating, and getting solar panels with batteries etc when I can afford to reroof my house. Again, not sure e c heating would be the right solution. Although with the mild temps I'm getting away with the heaters not being on at the mo :-) 

I'll wait and see what happens. I was hoping someone had been in a similar position and what the outcome was. As you say, I can look at alternative suppliers and options for split cheap rate times if SP don't suit me. 

QrizB

Pixie_Cosmo said:

QrizB said

If (as you state) your storage heaters are modern ones, and if they were correctly sized for E7 when installed, they should work fine with seven overnight hours.

They are fine for 7 hours charging, I just can't afford to have them on 7 hours a day instead of four.

You have control over how much charge they take, using the input control on the heater. You shouldn't think that, if powered for seven hours, they will always heat up for the entire period.

Pixie_Cosmo said:

I looked at maybe installing electric central heating,

Electric central heating (with one of those electric combi boilers, for example) will cost more.to run than storage heaters. Most people on this forum would advise against it.

A similar system using a heat pump should be cheaper to run than storage heaters.

Pixie_Cosmo

Update. SP has contacted me to say I will have to have a smart meter, as the radio technology which the E7/ storage heater timing runs off will be turned off next year. I have a letter from them saying I will keep my existing E7 hours. H'mm.

Kid_Icarus

Pixie_Cosmo said:

Update. SP has contacted me to say I will have to have a smart meter, as the radio technology which the E7/ storage heater timing runs off will be turned off next year. I have a letter from them saying I will keep my existing E7 hours. H'mm.

You could try getting in touch (write or email?) with SP’s complex metering team and see if they can provide definitive confirmation.  A standard letter from customer services may not be worth the paper it’s written on.

I would not delay however - SP have the most Radio TeleSwitch Meters to replace out of all of the suppliers - 154,000 still on the wall as of April 24….anyones guess whether they will be able to replace them all before the June 2025 RTS switch off date