Charge by management agent to rearrange maintanance visit.

grumpy_chicken_81

Hello all

I live in a shared ownership property by L&Q, but with day-to-day management of the development farmed out to a 3rd party management agent.  The 25% I own is a leasehold, the 75% L&Q own is rented.

The management agent needs me to provide their contractors access to my balcony to perform maintenance on a building safety system located on my balcony (scheduled maintenance, not an emergency issue).   I am normally perfectly happy to provide this access, however on this occasion I am on holiday on the days they have requested access.  I have offered a large range of alternative dates, however the management agents say that if they rearrange the maintenance for a day outside of the window they provided, I will have to pay for this.

Are they allowed to do this?  It does not seem right or fair to me that I should have to pay for their contractors to undertake an inspection of something that the freeholder (L&Q) are responsible for maintaining because I am not able to be at home on the very limited choice of days they have provided.

Any advise would be welcomed as I am going round in circles with the management agent.

Thank you!

HampshireH

What does their policy say on what they can recharge? If they have a standard fee for missed appts this will be written into it.

However it sounds unreasonable to charge this unless you had previously agreed to the appt and have now made yourself unavailable 

grumpy_chicken_81

HampshireH said:

What does their policy say on what they can recharge? If they have a standard fee for missed appts this will be written into it.

However it sounds unreasonable to charge this unless you had previously agreed to the appt and have now made yourself unavailable 

Thankyou.  I don't believe I've ever seen their fees and charges policy so I shall ask them for a copy.  

I'm not sure this is a missed appointment as I've told them in advance that I am not able to provide access on the dates offered.

user1977

I could see the logic in there being a communal charge if there have to be multiple visits to get round the whole development (assuming that's actually charged by the contractors), but not charging individual "culprits" especially when this isn't a missed appointment.

But isn't the pragmatic approach either to arrange for somebody else to provide access, or lend your keys to the agents, rather than bash your head against a wall?

grumpy_chicken_81

user1977 said:

I could see the logic in there being a communal charge if there have to be multiple visits to get round the whole development (assuming that's actually charged by the contractors), but not charging individual "culprits" especially when this isn't a missed appointment.

But isn't the pragmatic approach either to arrange for somebody else to provide access, or lend your keys to the agents, rather than bash your head against a wall?

Thank you for the advice. 

I am not keen on providing the agent with my keys as it could invalidate my insurance if anything gets damaged or goes missing.

In all honesty I probably will arrange for a family member to provide access, but I just really want to establish the principal around whether they are allowed to charge me for this, as no doubt there will be future occasions when they want into my flat at an inconvenient time.

eddddy

HampshireH said:

What does their policy say on what they can recharge? If they have a standard fee for missed appts this will be written into it.

That's probably not really relevant. If a fixed fee for missed appointments is quoted in the lease - then that would be binding. (But that's unlikely.)

But if a policy has been written outside the lease, typically, that won't be binding.

The legal requirement is that the fee must be 'reasonable'. In theory, if it's not 'reasonable' you can challenge it at tribunal. (But if the fee is only about £40 or £50, I guess a lot of people wouldn't bother with the hassle of a tribunal.)



@grumpy_chicken_81 - you can try arguing with them that the fee isn't reasonable. And/or you can say something like...

"I don't believe the fee is reasonable, so I am paying it under protest, and I may challenge it at tribunal. Especially if you charge me any further fees which I believe are unreasonable."


But it's always best to pay it (maybe under protest), because otherwise 'late payment admin fees' etc might be added.




Edit to add...

.grumpy_chicken_81 said:

 I don't believe I've ever seen their fees and charges policy so I shall ask them for a copy.  

For the reasons I mention above, that's kind-of irrelevant.

But you might be interested to read it anyway. But you mustn't say anything that suggests you accept or agree to those fees.

In fact, it might be best to be really clear, and say you will only accept fees that are reasonable, and you will only pay unreasonable fees under protest - irrelevant of what their policy says.

user1977

grumpy_chicken_81 said:

user1977 said:

I could see the logic in there being a communal charge if there have to be multiple visits to get round the whole development (assuming that's actually charged by the contractors), but not charging individual "culprits" especially when this isn't a missed appointment.

But isn't the pragmatic approach either to arrange for somebody else to provide access, or lend your keys to the agents, rather than bash your head against a wall?

I am not keen on providing the agent with my keys as it could invalidate my insurance if anything gets damaged or goes missing/

It won't "invalidate" your insurance in any general sense. If the contractors cause damage you'll have a claim against them, irrespective of whether you have insurance.

grumpy_chicken_81

eddddy said:

HampshireH said:

What does their policy say on what they can recharge? If they have a standard fee for missed appts this will be written into it.

That's probably not really relevant. If a fixed fee for missed appointments is quoted in the lease - then that would be binding. (But that's unlikely.)

But if a policy has been written outside the lease, typically, that won't be binding.

The legal requirement is that the fee must be 'reasonable'. In theory, if it's not 'reasonable' you can challenge it at tribunal. (But if the fee is only about £40 or £50, I guess a lot of people wouldn't bother with the hassle of a tribunal.)



@grumpy_chicken_81 - you can try arguing with them that the fee isn't reasonable. And/or you can say something like...

"I don't believe the fee is reasonable, so I am paying it under protest, and I may challenge it at tribunal. Especially if you charge me any further fees which I believe are unreasonable."


But it's always best to pay it (maybe under protest), because otherwise 'late payment admin fees' etc might be added.




Edit to add...

.grumpy_chicken_81 said:

 I don't believe I've ever seen their fees and charges policy so I shall ask them for a copy.  

For the reasons I mention above, that's kind-of irrelevant.

But you might be interested to read it anyway. But you mustn't say anything that suggests you accept or agree to those fees.

In fact, it might be best to be really clear, and say you will only accept fees that are reasonable, and you will only pay unreasonable fees under protest - irrelevant of what their policy says.

Thank you for the advice.

If I miss an appointment and they charge me £50 so be it.  My big concern is around them trying to pass on the costs for the contractors to come out to me to complete the work.

I will be very careful with what I put into writing with them.  Thank you for the paid under protest line.

To be honest there are so many holes and contradictions in the correspondence I've received from the managing agents any half decent solicitor would have a field day - but I don't want the stress!

Herzlos

How much notice did they give you?

grumpy_chicken_81

Herzlos said:

How much notice did they give you?

2 weeks, which is more than the legal minimum - but I booked my holiday six months ago!

There are further issues though.  I was not told about this system being on my balcony when I bought the flat from the housing association or the need for these inspections.  At the first inspection the managing agent told me, in writing, that the inspections were annual (not every six months as they are now saying).  I think therefore it was reasonable for me to believe that I wouldn't need to allow access for this purpose again until around August.