executor deciding to make gift from estate funds to someone not named in will

photodgm

Marcon said:

See https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/content/103479 which makes helpful reading.

Thank you for this. I didn't know there were two ways to own a joint account.

Keep_pedalling

photodgm said:

Marcon said:

See https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/content/103479 which makes helpful reading.

Thank you for this. I didn't know there were two ways to own a joint account.

The big problem comes if the surviving account holder claims that the deceased had gifted them half the money in the account. Proving otherwise is going to be very difficult,

Spendless

Marcon said:

photodgm said:

Savvy_Sue said:

OK, so that clarifies things. My understanding would therefore be: 

Your co-executor has given a.n.other a significant amount of money, using a joint account which has transferred into his name. However this money should all be regarded as estate money. 

My understanding is different (possibly wrong). Any money in a joint account is belongs equally to both. Whilst both are alive either could at any time legally spend the money on anything they wanted to or transfer all the money into their own sole account. When one party to the joint account dies the money passes to the survivor.  It is not part of the estate. However if the money in it came solely from the deceased, it is counted as part of the estate for IHT purposes. If someone has a link to something official that can provide a definitive answer I for one would be grateful. 

See https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/content/103479 which makes helpful reading.

That made interesting reading but I don't think it's been made clear on this thread if the Joint account holder is a spouse or civil partner of the deceased (apologies if I've skipped this info) 

Are there inheritance tax implications when a joint bank account holder dies?

HMRC asks detailed questions about joint accounts on the inheritance tax return, which is submitted as part of the application for probate or letters of administration when someone dies.

Whilst HMRC may not be too concerned about the ownership of joint accounts held by spouses or civil partners (as such transfers would be exempt from inheritance tax), they will look more closely at accounts held by others, such as unmarried couples and parents and children.

From the above I'm guessing the same is true of estates left in wills and  depends on the relationship of  the joint account holder to the deceased as to whether it becomes theirs or not??

DE_612183

I missed the bit about it being a joint account - as far as I'm aware if it's a joint account and ones of the holders die, then the account and the funds pass to the other person - it's not part of the estate - unless of course the joint bank account is mentioned specifically in the will.

propertyrental

I've now found the gov guidance to form IHT404 which says

Jointly owned assets where all the money was provided by

the deceased

Sometimes assets may be owned jointly with another person,

but one person provided all the money, either in an account

or to buy an asset. For example, an elderly person who has

difficulty getting out, may add the name of a relative to an

account for convenience so the relative may draw out money

on the elderly person’s behalf.

If the person who provided all the money dies, then their

share of this account will be the whole. 

It follows that if someone died with their name on a joint

account but they did not provide any of the funds, no part of

the account need be included in the estate unless the other

joint owner intended to make a gift to the deceased

This describes the current situation precisely.

DE_612183

ok, but can you prove that the other person did not contribute to the funds in the joint account?

poppystar

DE_612183 said:

ok, but can you prove that the other person did not contribute to the funds in the joint account?

From bank statements that the executor should have access to. 

Spendless

I got intrigued by this aspect so had a look around. There's a historic case mentioned here Drakford V Cotton.

https://www.lesteraldridge.com/blog/tax-trusts-wills-probate/joint-bank-accounts-who-actually-owns-the-money/print/


I can see this having the potential to get messy depending on what the joint account holder says.

propertyrental

poppystar said:

DE_612183 said:

ok, but can you prove that the other person did not contribute to the funds in the joint account?

From bank statements that the executor should have access to. 

Indeed statements will show credits from deceased's pension providers and perhaps the off refund/credit eg for returned purchases, but no credits from or related to the joint account holder.