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Clamping on railway land (NET tram Nottingham)

Hi, I've been sent over here from PePiPoo (pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=152952) in the hope that someone might have some legal insight!

In brief: I was recently clamped at the NET tram Clifton park and ride for parking without using the tram (I used the University bus that stops there, foolishly assuming that buses stopping at a park and ride meant you could park and ride, my bad! They were sat in a van watching for people getting on the buses). They do have some signage saying that drivers not using the tram will be clamped. However, I do not believe they have lawful authority to clamp, and extract a £140 release fee. I had to pay as it was 5pm Friday and I was 50 miles from home.

The legislation they are doing this under is The Nottingham Express Transit System Order 2009 (sorry can't post links)

53.—(1) The promoter may make byelaws regulating—

(a)the use and operation of, and travel on, the authorised tramway;
(b)the maintenance of safety and order on the authorised tramway, on any street along which the authorised tramway is laid and on tramway premises or other facilities provided in connection with the authorised tramway, where necessary to ensure the safe operation and use of the authorised tramway; and
©the conduct of all persons, including employees of the promoter, while on the authorised tramway or on tramway premises, or which could affect the safe operation and use of the authorised tramway
.

So their byelaws should only be for safety. My car parked in a car park does not hinder the safe operation of the tram.

(2) In particular, byelaws made under this article may make provision—
(g)for prohibiting or restricting the placing or leaving of any vehicle without its driver on any part of the authorised tramway or on tramway premises; and
(3) Byelaws made under this article may provide for it to be an offence for a person to contravene, or to fail to comply with, a provision of the byelaws and for such a person to be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.


They have power to restrict parking on their premises and fine those who do not obey. Clamping is not a fine. I don't believe this legislation trumps POFA.

The byelaws they have enacted under this legislation are NOTTINGHAM EXPRESS
TRANSIT BYELAWS 2014

which aside from the above have a couple of issues,

1) this says you can park there to collect someone traveling on the tram. No mention of the driver having to directly proceed to the tram as their leaflet left on my car and new smallprint signs say.

2) they can charge costs incurred due to removal of clamp. How does it cost them £140 for a chap in a van to drive 20 minutes and use a key? 

Furthermore, a freedom of information request was lodged by someone else to find out how they believe they are doing this lawfully whatdotheyknow.com/request/nettramlink_nottingham_ltd_autho which was largely refused on commercial interest grounds.

In essence, I don't think they are legally allowed to clamp and blackmail me out of the £140 which I have paid. Any insight if I've got a leg to stand on with a complaint would be very welcome though because I'm a scientist so the legal speak is foreign to me! It just seems outrageous to me that they can do this without so much as a warning, and in place of PCN. This was only the second time I'd parked this car in this car park, and if they'd left a note to clarify the bus is not usable from there I'd have stopped.

Comments

  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,054
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    edited 12 February at 11:22AM
    How was the £140 paid?

    (POFA wouldn't apply as the car park is subject to Byelaws).
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,208
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    @troublemaker22 might have some insight but he is already on pepipoo & may have seen this case.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Grizebeck
    Grizebeck Posts: 2,652
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    Yes they are allowed to clamp under these byelaws
    Advocate in the County Court dealing with a variety of cases, attending the courts in the North East and North Yorkshire
  • Castle said:
    How was the £140 paid?

    (POFA wouldn't apply as the car park is subject to Byelaws).
    Bank transfer, extorted over the phone 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,208
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    Appeals against clamping are surely a no-brainer if you can find grounds, because you've already paid.  Nowt to lose.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Grizebeck said:
    Yes they are allowed to clamp under these byelaws
    In this circumstance? I.e. parked in a car park, no obstruction. And only because someone has not departed on a tram.

    Seems an awful lot of power they've been given. It just seems horrid to me that they can do this and charge so much for an innocent mistake, without warning. The car park was at most 1/3 full so not even obstructing potential tram passengers. 
  • Grizebeck
    Grizebeck Posts: 2,652
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    edited 12 February at 8:44PM
    Grizebeck said:
    Yes they are allowed to clamp under these byelaws
    In this circumstance? I.e. parked in a car park, no obstruction. And only because someone has not departed on a tram.

    Seems an awful lot of power they've been given. It just seems horrid to me that they can do this and charge so much for an innocent mistake, without warning. The car park was at most 1/3 full so not even obstructing potential tram passengers. 
    Yes this is common. They stepped this up over the last 12 months and it was well highlighted in local media
    Sites the the forest are well targeted due to people not using it as was designed.
    Advocate in the County Court dealing with a variety of cases, attending the courts in the North East and North Yorkshire
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,208
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    But if there's nothing to lose, look up the byelaws, find a flaw or omission (if there is one) and appeal it.  
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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