Registered Users Only on PRIVATE LAND

UserD

Hi MSE Forum ,

I am a newbie and have gone through the newbie guidance and used that to submit the AOS so would like to thank you all for all your advise in past posts as it really feels like it helped me but would like to ask for more advise if i may for filling in the template that you provided as i have gone through some cases on the forum but need some more guidance for the the reason to defend. This is the the first time i have decided to defend my case in the UK as i don't think that i was in the wrong and only been living in the UK for 4 years so do not know the laws for private parking as i should do. The fine and claim was posted to me and did not receive a fine on the screen and the fine does have a photo of my car and number plate.

i have redacted the Claim form so hope i hope i have not left any details in which are not supposed to be there.

Background-
i went to pick my daughter up from her nail technician which was working from there flat and did not really see any signs but the nail technician did say we can come through to the building and pick her up outside the flat it as there are many flat buildings in the estate.
i received the fine but did not appeal and then got the claim form on the 19 Jan 24 and the filled in and sent the AOS on the 30 Jan 24..

a)Please confirm when i should have my defense in by?

My defense is that i was a visitor and should of appealed but the point remains and should not have been sent a fine in the first place.

b) is my defence valid and is there any other points i can make as described below ?

I read some cases on the forum were the sign was the focus of the defence so went back to the entrance of the estate and the only sign displayed there stated ...   'REGISTERED USERS ONLY' and in small writing below says '' if the parking contract terms are breached ,we may request the name and address of the registered keeper of the vehicle from the DVLA in order to issue or follow up a notice of the parking charge."  i was sent some commination from them so they do have my details but are they authorized to get the details if i dont have any contract with them(sign attached)

c) Are they allowed to do this as the agent as i am not a registered user to the estate and hence do not have any contract with them and that the landlord of the property should claim a charge of trespassing and not a parking charge?

The sign also said "See notices in car park for terms and conditions and data use " but i could not go in to the estate as it was closed at the main gate at the time i went back to see the signs and dont remember seeing any sign when i was there in the estate picking my daughter up.

d) is this legal to put a main sign in the front and the terms and conditions inside the estate ?



Please advise .

Kind Regards
USERD

Coupon-mad

You cannot be bound by terms you were unable to read.  This - and a brief summary of why you were there, and only for picking up a passenger, not parking - should form paragraph 3 of your defence.

There won't be a hearing!  No worries.

Umkomaas

A claim by DCB Legal for UKPC usually only ends in one outcome if you follow all the processes outlined in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, and the Template Defence Announcement. How do we know?  Read the following thread, and get yourself a mention on it in a few months time. Stay strong and resilient - no paying this inflated grab at your hard-earned income. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

KeithP

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th January, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st February 2024 to file your Defence.

That's a little over a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP, and it is never too late to do this.

Defence is spelt with a  "c". This is not me being picky. The law is a pedant, so you must use the correct terminology when dealing with the courts.

Now to answer your questions. 

I think you have until the 21st of February to submit your defence, but hopefully forum regular @KeithP will be along soon to confirm this.

For your defence, use the whole of the template defence from the sticky Announcement of the same name. Show us your draft, but only the parts you have amended.

I don't think the particulars of claim are adequate because they do not set out a specific cause of action. It does not specify what contract breach is alleged. Instead it only says, Registered Users Only, but does not claim that the defendant was not a registered user. In my opinion the CEL v Chan case should be cited, and the transcript included in your defence, but see what more court savvy regulars say. This was an appeal case so is persuasive on the lower courts.

MET Parking taking me to court N1 received Help! - Page 4 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

In any case, the term, Registered Users Only is a forbidding term, means it does not offer anything of value to a non-registered user. Without an offer, there can be no consideration, and without either, there can be no agreement. You cannot agree to do something that is forbidden.

On top of that, dropping off/picking up is not parking as determined in Jopson v Homeguard, case number B9GF0A9E, where the judge stated that collecting or delivering (of goods or people) is not parking. This was also an appeal case so is persuasive on the lower courts.
The transcript is available online, and the judge's comments can be found around paragraphs 19 and 20.


Yes, it is acceptable to have an entrance sign that refers to terms and conditions on signs inside the car park. You should go back and get photos of the site and signage, on foot! You need to determine if the signs state how user can become registered. If they don't, then it is also an unfair contract term as defined by the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Castle

I like the reference on the sign to "additional charges may apply in accordance with the Private Parking Code of Practice". 

UserD

I have done more research and found that if you do not get out the car and leave the car there are grounds for the fine to be dismissed, please confirm if this is a point i can use?

UserD

Coupon-mad said:

You cannot be bound by terms you were unable to read.  This - and a brief summary of why you were there, and only for picking up a passenger, not parking - should form paragraph 3 of your defence.

There won't be a hearing!  No worries.

Thank you Coupon-Mad , i appreciate your comments.

UserD

Umkomaas said:

A claim by DCB Legal for UKPC usually only ends in one outcome if you follow all the processes outlined in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, and the Template Defence Announcement. How do we know?  Read the following thread, and get yourself a mention on it in a few months time. Stay strong and resilient - no paying this inflated grab at your hard-earned income. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

Thank you Umkomaas and fellow South African. I appreciate your comments as well and will go through the post as suggested.
Kind Regards
UserD

UserD

KeithP said:

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th January, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st February 2024 to file your Defence.

That's a little over a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Thanks KeithP for the deadline confirmation and have already gone through the second post in the NEWBIES thread which helped a lot. 

Coupon-mad

UserD said:

I have done more research and found that if you do not get out the car and leave the car there are grounds for the fine to be dismissed, please confirm if this is a point i can use?

No. And it isn't a fine.