Rights against rent increase

R200

[Deleted User] said:

R200 said:

Threatening to go to tribunal is a good negotiation tactic as it’s free for tenants and costs LL

It's a tactic that wouldn't work with me as I always point out that the tenant is entitled to go to tribunal, I almost encourage it.

What does it cost the LL - please elaborate?

I understood it costs the LL everytime it goes to tribunal but never costs the tenant at all. Even if the tenant loses then they don’t have to pay LL costs. So it’s a win win for the tenants everytime but always in the LL interests to settle things before tribunal 

propertyrental

R200 said:

[Deleted User] said:

R200 said:

Threatening to go to tribunal is a good negotiation tactic as it’s free for tenants and costs LL

It's a tactic that wouldn't work with me as I always point out that the tenant is entitled to go to tribunal, I almost encourage it.

What does it cost the LL - please elaborate?

I understood it costs the LL everytime it goes to tribunal b...

based on........??

[Deleted User]

R200 said:

[Deleted User] said:

R200 said:

Threatening to go to tribunal is a good negotiation tactic as it’s free for tenants and costs LL

It's a tactic that wouldn't work with me as I always point out that the tenant is entitled to go to tribunal, I almost encourage it.

What does it cost the LL - please elaborate?

I understood it costs the LL everytime it goes to tribunal but never costs the tenant at all. Even if the tenant loses then they don’t have to pay LL costs. So it’s a win win for the tenants everytime but always in the LL interests to settle things before tribunal 

Instead of posting here, why not spend 15min reading the basic advice from Shelter, Citizen's Advice, .gov.uk etc?

Plenty of more detailed information out there, what happens at the tribunal, how the panel is made up, what they will require from you.
Tribunal decisions, outcome percentages, costs for tenants if they want to appeal, all just a few clicks away....

R200

The tenant does not have to pay LL costs even if they lose at the tribunal 

caprikid1

R200 said:

The tenant does not have to pay LL costs even if they lose at the tribunal 

Tenant does not have to pay the Landlord costs for the section 21 either.

[Deleted User]

R200 said:

The tenant does not have to pay LL costs even if they lose at the tribunal 

What landlord costs? You keep mentioning this point, please explain?
You do realise that the tribunal decision can be beneficial to the landlord and this happens in a significant proportion of cases?

The tenant will need to accept the tribunal's decision or pay for an appeal.
The appeal costs the tenant £275 with the potential for other fees on top. All explained on the websites listed above.

caprikid1

[Deleted User] said:

R200 said:

The tenant does not have to pay LL costs even if they lose at the tribunal 

What landlord costs? You keep mentioning this point, please explain?
You do realise that the tribunal decision can be beneficial to the landlord and this happens in a significant proportion of cases?

The tenant will need to accept the tribunal's decision or pay for an appeal.
The appeal costs the tenant £275 with the potential for other fees on top. All explained on the websites listed above.

Please don't let facts and reality get in the way of this individuals agenda they are trying to push, misguided though it may be.

RHemmings

[Deleted User] said:

R200 said:

The tenant does not have to pay LL costs even if they lose at the tribunal 

What landlord costs? You keep mentioning this point, please explain?
You do realise that the tribunal decision can be beneficial to the landlord and this happens in a significant proportion of cases?

The tenant will need to accept the tribunal's decision or pay for an appeal.
The appeal costs the tenant £275 with the potential for other fees on top. All explained on the websites listed above.

Is it possible to find out which decisions go the landlord's or tenant's way? I can see the results, e.g. here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6596a42fc23a1000128d0b7d/B19_1LR_BIR_00CN_MNR_2023_0146.pdf

which gives the rent decided by the tribunal. But, no information that I can see about what the landlord's and tenant's position was before the ruling. 

EDIT: Some decisions give much more detail, including what  the landlord's and tenant's original positions were, and how the decision was made. For the following case, the existing rent had been £1800pcm since 2018, and the landlord wanted an increase to £2350. The result was £2200. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/655c8587d03a8d001207fd98/7_Clopton_Park_Newmarket_CB8_8ND.pdf

An appeal by the tenant was rejected. 

EDIT2: Wow, someone appealed a raising of the rent from £1600pcm to £1650pcm. I'm not sure if what was included was changed. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6593db5780a3bb000e9d061f/24_Shakespeare_Way_Tavernahm_NR8_6SJ_Rehearing.pdf

After a re-hearing, and a lot of detail, the rent was fixed at £1625 per month. 

EDIT3: Wow, a landlord tried to raise the rent for a property from £676pcm (from 2021) to £1550. The eventual decision was £846. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65bb7c2321f73f000de0ba56/Flat_4__6_Norfolk_Terrace__Reasons.pdf

Same landlord also trying to increase the rent from £925 to £1550 again, based on another flat in the same block finding a tenant for that amount. Result: £1,157pcm. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65bb7b3821f73f0014e0ba5b/Flat_1__6_Norfolk_Terrace__Reasons.pdf

EDIT4: I'm sure that nobody's reading this far down, but here is a landlord trying to increase a rent from £325pcm to £2000pcm. Result: £625pcm. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65bb7a214965c50010e8a34f/8_Ingle_Close__Reasons.pdf

EDIT5: I finally found one that backfired on the tenant (out of many that didn't). Previous rent £2250, new rent proposed by the landlord £3000, and result £3200. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65ba9f3927fccf000d4bd190/6_Barge_Drive_reasons.pdf

skray

propertyrental said:

You have not answered the question. Why blank out the relevant dates? (XX/XX)?

propertyrental said:

Are you on a fixed term contract, or Periodic (rolling)?

.......

If you are still in the fixed term, and are considering signing a new fixed term, the rent is negotiable. Whatever you/LL agree.

If periodic, LL cannot rely on the rent clause (which is too vague) but could serve a S13 Notice. Or you could mutually agree a new rent.

• One months notice can be given from rent payment date throughout 
  tenancy. LL can give 2m from rent payment date. Landlord can request 
  rent increase every 12m.

This is one of the wierdest clauses I've ever seen! In effect there is no 'fixed term', the AST is effectively a Contractual Periodic Tenancy which either side can end at any time (subject to notice, S21 etc)

@propertyrental
"You have not answered the question. Why blank out the relevant dates? (XX/XX)? Are you on a fixed term contract, or Periodic (rolling)?"
I blanked out the dates for confidentiality. Here are the dates
Term: 12m beginning 03/Mar/2023 ("the fixed period")

Expiry Date: 02/Mar/2024
I have been living at this property for over 4.5 years. The original contract started in 2019 was Assured Shorthold Tenancy for 6m with a break clause of 3m that I negotiated. The break clause would have allowed me to move out after 3m of moving in e.g. in case I am being transferred or taking up a new job elsewhere. Thereafter I believe I was on a rolling period with 1m notice.

Only last March I was requested to pay a higher rent and had to sign a new contract for 12m. I have copied the relevant wordings from my contract. This was also an Assured Shorthold Tenancy with an Expiry Date after 12m - but there was an exit clause both both myself (1m notice) and LL(2m). From a legal standpoint whether the new contract was Fixed or Rolling I would not be able to confirm.
I am living in a multistoried property - all other flats are of similar design. I would be surprised if a large number of people are paying the rent with their own money that I am being asked to pay. But there is no way to confirm how much others are paying.
I am dealing with the agent, not the LL. There has not been any confrontation in the past. Its just that the rent increase is huge.

Thanks everybody for your responses. Let me see what options I have.

[Deleted User]

RHemmings said:

[Deleted User] said:

R200 said:

The tenant does not have to pay LL costs even if they lose at the tribunal 

What landlord costs? You keep mentioning this point, please explain?
You do realise that the tribunal decision can be beneficial to the landlord and this happens in a significant proportion of cases?

The tenant will need to accept the tribunal's decision or pay for an appeal.
The appeal costs the tenant £275 with the potential for other fees on top. All explained on the websites listed above.

Is it possible to find out which decisions go the landlord's or tenant's way? I can see the results, e.g. here:

Google is your friend, I won't post links.

Landlords could have asked for more in nearly 30% of rent increase cases, according to research into English First-Tier Tribunal decisions in the second quarter of 2023.

In some cases, renters are ending up with figures that are hundreds higher than the landlord suggested.

Analysis by the i newspaper of 30 property tribunal hearings in the last three months reveals that more than a quarter, or eight cases, ended with higher increases than the landlord proposed.

In 10 cases, the tribunal decided the rent should stay the same, and in 11 it could be raised, but not as much as the landlord wanted.

The tribunal lowered the rent in one case to below the original monthly amount.

In one example, a landlord who owned a property in Surrey had asked to increase the rent from £1,260 to £1,300 per month, but the tribunal initially said a figure of £2,200 per month was reasonable.

It concluded with a figure of £1,540 once evidence about the dated condition of the property was considered.

A landlord with a flat in south east London wanted a rent increase from £86 per week to nearly £93 per week (from about £375 to £402 per month), but the tribunal initially said the property could command £1,050 per month in good condition.

But it said: “Given the issues regarding damp this is reduced to £800 per month [equivalent to around £185 per week].”