Smart Meters - Octopus/Greg Jackson states "They're so bad"

QrizB

So, as far as the original post goes, we've established that Greg Jackson's remark that

We've had a million such sessions looking at those darned things. They're so bad.

... relates specifically to in-home displays, and that Octopus have developed the Home Mini (whih they supply to their customers free of chage) as a way of providing a better IHD-style experience.

As for smart meters, yes the specs are a decade old but that's because they were developed a decade ago.

If @Dolor were still around he'd mention at this point that other European countries - like France - have a reference design of smart meter which means they are all the same and support is relatively simple.

For resons known best to Ofgem and the UK government, the UK produced a spec and left it to manufacturers to design the hardware with the result that we have dozens of different models of smart meter in use all of which need through-life support.

pete-20-11

In the early days of saving sessions, there was a big delay getting the results because of problems with a particular model of smart meter, which many people used.  

Octopus had to work with that supplier and presumably the DCC too, to get the problem resolved and get the savings session data calculated. 

There’s often issues with the adapters, data missing or delayed. Plus many comms issues too - poor signal, no external antenna options for those on radio vs 3G. 

So there’s definitely issues with the smart meters not just the IHDs. 

It’s good that Greg is pushing for change, but it looks like a frustrating push at times - not just re metering, but also on energy prices (decouple gas), and many other things. 

ArbitraryRandom

pete-20-11 said:

So there’s definitely issues with the smart meters not just the IHDs. 

I don't think anyone has said otherwise have they? 

The issue (I have) is when people are pointing to problems that are either nothing to do with smart meters or exactly the same problems as 'traditional' meters have and saying 'this is why smart meters are bad'.  

pete-20-11

ArbitraryRandom said:

pete-20-11 said:

So there’s definitely issues with the smart meters not just the IHDs. 

I don't think anyone has said otherwise have they? 

The issue (I have) is when people are pointing to problems that are either nothing to do with smart meters or exactly the same problems as 'traditional' meters have and saying 'this is why smart meters are bad'.  

Reply 2 said it was IHDs. 

brig001

I find it frustrating that the whole smart meter system is so bad. The first remote readable smart meter I saw was over 40 years ago. These are not a new thing! I have economy 7 and if I change supplier it’s a lottery as to whether they get the two readings the right way round. Why? They wouldn’t swap on a traditional meter. My IHD doesn’t even show total usage, only total for the current rate, that’s when it shows anything at all as it only works right next to the meter itself. Since found out that it uses Zigbee which isn’t suitable for use in flats, why would they use that Zigbee?

Brian

ArbitraryRandom

pete-20-11 said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

pete-20-11 said:

So there’s definitely issues with the smart meters not just the IHDs. 

I don't think anyone has said otherwise have they? 

The issue (I have) is when people are pointing to problems that are either nothing to do with smart meters or exactly the same problems as 'traditional' meters have and saying 'this is why smart meters are bad'.  

Reply 2 said it was IHDs. 

Because, as has been pointed out a couple of times the thread, the quotes from Greg Jackson given in the OP and title ("We've had a million such sessions looking at those darned things. They're so bad.") WERE about IHDs... 

MeteredOut

brig001 said:

I find it frustrating that the whole smart meter system is so bad. The first remote readable smart meter I saw was over 40 years ago. These are not a new thing! I have economy 7 and if I change supplier it’s a lottery as to whether they get the two readings the right way round. Why? They wouldn’t swap on a traditional meter. My IHD doesn’t even show total usage, only total for the current rate, that’s when it shows anything at all as it only works right next to the meter itself. Since found out that it uses Zigbee which isn’t suitable for use in flats, why would they use that Zigbee?

Brian

Where did you hear that nonsense? Zigbee is a communications protocol. If the distance between the receiver and the sender is too far, or has, eg, multiple walls in the way, the signal degrades and the interference could result in data not reaching the communications hub or IHD, or it only working intermittently.

But, thats the case whether its flats, houses our Buckingham palace.

They'll have chosen Zigbee because its a proven low-power protocol meaning longevity for the battery in gas meters connecting remotely to the communications hub.

C_Mababejive

what i find annoying is that Octopus keep prodding ME to send them manual readings despite the fact that i have 2 x smart meters and they are both streaming data. Its NOT my job. If you want me to read them then pay me ! Also my gas smart meter went offline for a few weeks. Octopus started to email me, eventually i did some troubleshooting and brought it back on line. (reconnect to HAN), no reward from octopus for doing free work. Next time ill do nothing.

ArbitraryRandom

brig001 said:

They wouldn’t swap on a traditional meter. 

People have problems with the registers being recorded the wrong way around (or the time switch going out of sync, or the user getting confused and giving the wrong readings/adding them together) with traditional meters... 

An couple of old thread with a few different issues as an example:
https://whatconsumer.co.uk/forum/threads/bbc-watchdog-economy-7-meters-in-a-muddle.3213/ https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4838009/big-eon-bill-mixed-up-economy-7-reading

brig001

MeteredOut said:

brig001 said:

I find it frustrating that the whole smart meter system is so bad. The first remote readable smart meter I saw was over 40 years ago. These are not a new thing! I have economy 7 and if I change supplier it’s a lottery as to whether they get the two readings the right way round. Why? They wouldn’t swap on a traditional meter. My IHD doesn’t even show total usage, only total for the current rate, that’s when it shows anything at all as it only works right next to the meter itself. Since found out that it uses Zigbee which isn’t suitable for use in flats, why would they use that Zigbee?

Brian

Where did you hear that nonsense? Zigbee is a communications protocol. If the distance between the receiver and the sender is too far, or has, eg, multiple walls in the way, the signal degrades and the interference could result in data not reaching the communications hub or IHD, or it only working intermittently.

But, thats the case whether its flats, houses our Buckingham palace.

They'll have chosen Zigbee because it’s a proven low-power protocol meaning longevity for the battery in gas meters connecting remotely to the communications hub.

Zigbee uses 2.4GHz, the same as WiFi. If it detects it is interfering with WiFi, it will choose a different channel. In flats, there are no free channels, so it stops working or grinds very slowly. In a house, you won’t have that kind of density of access points. I must confess to not knowing the WiFi situation at Buckingham Palace 

That nonsense is taken from the government’s own smart meter white paper. I’ll try to find a copy if you are interested

Brian