Smart Meters - Octopus/Greg Jackson states "They're so bad"

EssexHebridean

brig001 said:

I find it frustrating that the whole smart meter system is so bad. The first remote readable smart meter I saw was over 40 years ago. These are not a new thing! I have economy 7 and if I change supplier it’s a lottery as to whether they get the two readings the right way round. Why? They wouldn’t swap on a traditional meter. My IHD doesn’t even show total usage, only total for the current rate, that’s when it shows anything at all as it only works right next to the meter itself. Since found out that it uses Zigbee which isn’t suitable for use in flats, why would they use that Zigbee?

Brian

In the 20 years I was on E7 with an old style meter, on three occasions suppliers transposed the readings. The thing of readings getting swapped is far from just a smart metering issue.

MeteredOut

brig001 said:

MeteredOut said:

brig001 said:

I find it frustrating that the whole smart meter system is so bad. The first remote readable smart meter I saw was over 40 years ago. These are not a new thing! I have economy 7 and if I change supplier it’s a lottery as to whether they get the two readings the right way round. Why? They wouldn’t swap on a traditional meter. My IHD doesn’t even show total usage, only total for the current rate, that’s when it shows anything at all as it only works right next to the meter itself. Since found out that it uses Zigbee which isn’t suitable for use in flats, why would they use that Zigbee?

Brian

Where did you hear that nonsense? Zigbee is a communications protocol. If the distance between the receiver and the sender is too far, or has, eg, multiple walls in the way, the signal degrades and the interference could result in data not reaching the communications hub or IHD, or it only working intermittently.

But, thats the case whether its flats, houses our Buckingham palace.

They'll have chosen Zigbee because it’s a proven low-power protocol meaning longevity for the battery in gas meters connecting remotely to the communications hub.

Zigbee uses 2.4GHz, the same as WiFi. If it detects it is interfering with WiFi, it will choose a different channel. In flats, there are no free channels, so it stops working or grinds very slowly. In a house, you won’t have that kind of density of access points. I must confess to not knowing the WiFi situation at Buckingham Palace 

That nonsense is taken from the government’s own smart meter white paper. I’ll try to find a copy if you are interested

Brian

There's no such thing as "free" channels, just different levels of noise across the spectrum, and that will determine throughput. So, what you're actually saying is that Zigbee comms can be interrupted in network congested areas. Flats *might* be one scenario where that happens, but its ludicrous to suggest that Zigbee "isn't suitable for use in flats", even if it is taken from a government document.

Hermann

To be featured on the one show/Watchdog tonight.
Be interesting to see if the focus is on IHDs, Smart meters or customers failures!

BellaBlondykeTheThird

Hermann said:

To be featured on the one show/Watchdog tonight.
Be interesting to see if the focus is on IHDs, Smart meters or customers failures!

I wasn't impressed with the channel 5 smart meter program so likely this will go the same way.

It will likely end up being poor journalism.

MeteredOut

Hermann said:

To be featured on the one show/Watchdog tonight.
Be interesting to see if the focus is on IHDs, Smart meters or customers failures!

Didn't catch this - anyone got a summary? I too suspect it will have conflated the smart meter and the IHD.

So many of these consumer pieces I see about people getting huge bill are due to the customer not having a smart meter, accepting estimated usage bills without checking ("I've been paying my DD!"), getting a smart meter and then the billing being brought up to date with actual usage. To the customer, its the smart meter that caused the bill shock.

t0rt0ise

MeteredOut said:

Hermann said:

To be featured on the one show/Watchdog tonight.
Be interesting to see if the focus is on IHDs, Smart meters or customers failures!

Didn't catch this - anyone got a summary? I too suspect it will have conflated the smart meter and the IHD.

So many of these consumer pieces I see about people getting huge bill are due to the customer not having a smart meter, accepting estimated usage bills without checking ("I've been paying my DD!"), getting a smart meter and then the billing being brought up to date with actual usage. To the customer, its the smart meter that caused the bill shock.

I watched it last night on iplayer. It was so nothingness I can't remember much of what was said. They didn't mix up the IHD with the meter and clearly explained the difference and talked about the octopus mini. It was all okay.

Phones4Chris

t0rt0ise said:

MeteredOut said:

Hermann said:

To be featured on the one show/Watchdog tonight.
Be interesting to see if the focus is on IHDs, Smart meters or customers failures!

Didn't catch this - anyone got a summary? I too suspect it will have conflated the smart meter and the IHD.

So many of these consumer pieces I see about people getting huge bill are due to the customer not having a smart meter, accepting estimated usage bills without checking ("I've been paying my DD!"), getting a smart meter and then the billing being brought up to date with actual usage. To the customer, its the smart meter that caused the bill shock.

I watched it last night on iplayer. It was so nothingness I can't remember much of what was said. They didn't mix up the IHD with the meter and clearly explained the difference and talked about the octopus mini. It was all okay.

Well I've just watched it on iPlayer. I thought it was badly presented, did not make it clear that the various problems they mentioned were actually due to different issues (as anyone with some tech knowledge could deduce) and it wasn't made clear whether any were due to a faulty smart electric meter which is very rare.
Smart Gas meters are a different kettle of fish though and there can be numerous problems with those and their comms.

Phones4Chris

brig001 said:

I find it frustrating that the whole smart meter system is so bad. The first remote readable smart meter I saw was over 40 years ago. These are not a new thing! I have economy 7 and if I change supplier it’s a lottery as to whether they get the two readings the right way round. Why? They wouldn’t swap on a traditional meter. My IHD doesn’t even show total usage, only total for the current rate, that’s when it shows anything at all as it only works right next to the meter itself. Since found out that it uses Zigbee which isn’t suitable for use in flats, why would they use that Zigbee?

Brian

You've not explained that clearly. Nor whether your smart meter is SMETS1 or SMETS2.  You give the impression that by usage you are referring to how many kWh.
I don't know what IHD you have, mine is a Chameleon IHD3 and I'm on Economy 7 with a SMETS2 meter. The IHD does show the total number of units used but it's the sum of the Peak and Off-Peak. It doesn't show Peak or Off-Peak separately.

It also shows the total cost for each of the last 7 days (again Peak+Off-Peak) as well cost each week and month. It only shows the unit rate for the current tariff (peak or off-peak). However, those cost figures on the IHD are only accurate if your Smart Meter has been loaded with the correct tariff. Many do not get updated in a timely manner when the price changes, a lot depends on your supplier.
None of that will affect what you are billed as the rates on your bill will be the current ones and the usage will be taken from the R1 & R2 registers.
(A couple of others have already comment that the 2 readings can get swapped around by a supplier even with traditional meters).

If your IHD only works when next to the meter, you must have a lot of thick walls or partitions walls where the plasterboard has an aluminium foil lining for energy conservation, or have some other metallic obstructions.

brig001

You're right, I didn't explain it very well
SMETS1 meter with single band (2.4GHz) Zigbee - some neighbours have more modern displays than ours, and they are working fine, so I'm guessing that they are dual-band. The IHD is branded EON, and that's it. Looks like the one in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJD_qIf_KEc
It has always only showed the consumption for the current rate (kWh), so I need to stay up late/get up early to see the other rate. Maybe it should show total, but isn't working properly
Not bothered looking into cost as the numbers always seem to be wrong
I have no idea what the construction of these flats is, but I can see more than 20 wifi access points on 2.4GHz, so that frequency band is very congested which certainly won't help - 2.4GHz wifi is useless here

Brian