Hope Cove Car Park 2024

Coupon-mad

Wizawaz said:

On the 10/01/2024 I parked at this car park in Hope Cove. There was no one else parked there but us.
Similar to previous posts on the subject.
I received letter from PPS telling me I had to pay £60.
I have appealed, only today receiving a letter that it was not successful, so it is going to the IAS next.
As they say it was human error that the machine only captured the first letter of my Reg.
I have the ticket, we paid £2 by contactless.
The machine would not allow us to move on to the duration screen until I had put my Reg in.
I required 2 hours. We paid, it printed the ticket.
We did not stay the full time.
I also do not like the photo they have taken of us driving in, it rather encroaches on my privacy.
I will be arguing that point too.
I will not pay this, I will let it go to court as previous messages have stated.
I think also I will take all paper work to the police, as I am sure PPS are aware, especially after at least 3 years and I have read these cases happening from this car park on this site and Facebook, where the Reg is not being successful placed in during this time frame, so it is a stronger case of being a machine error.
They are trying to extort monies from me illegally. Committing a fraud and scamming members of the public who innocently just want to park and enjoy a walk around Hope Cove, on a winter's day.
I do not know who this couple is that own the car park land, but they are receiving monies from this, and again I will include them in my point raising it in court if it comes to that. 
It was my first time there, and last!

magpie1894 said:

It is obvious that PPS have faulty machinery (which just so happens to generate them a lot of income, both at Hope Cove and Sunny Corner in Cornwall), but they will claim that machines are working properly. I think one of the keys if it goes to court is to have "easy to present, so easy to understand" evidence of machinery fault. To this end, I suggest you look up HOPE COVE PARKING ISSUES GROUP on Facebook, and enter the following details (i) your date of parking, (ii) if you know, what was printed on your ticket for your car registration (often only the very first letter!) and (iii) PPS' Parking Charge Referance, likely to start A559_ _ _ _ . If enough people do this, it will produce a good book of evidence

Coupon-mad said:

That's really useful. Thanks for posting it. Yes, evidence of a pattern is key to showing that the machines are (deliberately or negligently?) faulty.

magpie1894 said:

BPA’s CoP in early 2024 covered this in clause 27.6.

IPC’s CoP in early 2024 was less clearcut, with clause 25.1 saying “Operators must be aware of their legal obligations and implement the relevant legislation and guidance when operating their businesses”.

The new joint CoP (27/6/24) has: “Signs and surface markings. Commentary on Clause 3. Operators should take notice of relevant best practice guidance and legislation.”

The signage includes the following: "You must enter your exact, full registration of the vehicle you are parking, at the pay and display machine or via RingGo. This registration MUST be fully recorded on your pay and display ticket or RingGo session. Recording a partial registration or the registration of a different vehicle DOES NOT authorise you to park." However, there is nothing about what to do if the machine is faulty, records a partial registration etc. 

I suspect the above words came about following the case reported on MSE by g1871 in February 2023, re parking in August 2022. The judge (this is paraphrased) said that the VRM logs could be used to check payments had been made but if any checks then revealed payment had been made then it should be an end to the matter.  He asked the BW Legal representive if he could prove having a full VRM logged was a clear condition of parking and he could not.  As both the defendant and the claimant agreed that payment had been made the claimant's case was dismissed.

The PPS scam is occurring on an industrial scale at Hope Cove. EG There is irrefutable hard-copy evidence (PPS slipped up by sending it to one of the victims!) that on 24/4/24, 45 cars used the car park: 42 no problem, 3 where just the first letter of the VRM recorded. The only credible explanation is faulty machinery: three people acting in isolation of each other do not make the same massive keying error. The affected individual tried appealing through IAS. Part of the response, regarding machine error was: " First, there is little evidence for this other than some anecdotal accounts. The Operator's evidence shows two other drivers out of dozens of drivers recorded a similar one letter. Even if I accept this was a machine fault I am still unable to allow the appeal. The driver must check the registration has recorded before they confirm payment. If the details are not correct they may cancel and start again."

The local MP has witnessed for herself the machinery not recording her registration correctly, and met with Will Hurley.

The subsequent written response she received was: “I [Will Hurley] have taken the time to speak with one of the company’s directors, James Smith, and to review several pieces of information that have been provided to us, and I am confident in my conclusion that the issues raised by your constituents appears to be a case of user error. I have been provided with a number of images that show the signs on display which provide clear instructions to motorists on how to the use the payment machines, including the importance of entering a full and correct vehicle registration number when making payment. James has acquired video footage from the parking attendants on site using the payment machines to ensure that there are no faults, and these machines are checked on a regular basis. PPS have also provided me with several dates’ worth of payment data, which confirms on these dates there were incorrect registration numbers input but the overwhelming majority input the full registration number. “

The conclusion I draw from this is that once PPS decide to issue a PCN, no evidence will alter their decision. 

I think the above gives lots of angles to cite PPS not fulfilling their contractual duties and using Unfair Contract Terms.

Any thoughts, Fruitcake or Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad said:

Jeez - thankyou - yet more evidence that the IPC and IAS are not fit for purpose.

Paraphrasing:

IAS : "even if I accept it was machine error, I will still not allow the appeal and will blame the driver".

Will Hurley: "It's user error" ...aka ...I blame the drivers.

Classy...

And as i said, the bottom line is, having paid & displayed, no driver would think there was any reason to phone anyone as well.  It is absurd and disingenuous to suggest that (and illegal to add a premium rate surcharge for the call).

Can you show that PPS list of payments that show three out of 45 caught out?

magpie1894 said:

Here is the PPs list of payments on 24/4/24.

magpie1894 said:

Here is part of the IAS dismissal letter

Did you see the recent videos in newspaper articles showing how this machine fault arises?

1. First faulty machine video:

Very interesting proof by Lynda (a trusted Facebook group ticket fighter) in her video here showing exactly how parking machines cause people's P&D tickets to print out with only the first digit of the VRM.  See the video at the top 'Parking Campaigner demonstrates what leads to 'keying errors':

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdeln2ly1z0o.amp

There is a second video of a faulty machine at the bottom of a EURO CAR PARKS Syston (behind B&M) Facebook group that exists to support victims of a reportedly faulty keypad system.  Over 100 people affected, including those whose credit rating has been ruined due to default CCJs:

Several articles on this same machine error, e.g. these, where people are so scared they actually think they 'could go to prison':

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-14454949/Drivers-received-100-parking-charges-faulty-display-machines-appeals-rejected-operator-RAC-dubs-scandalous.html

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/drivers-given-parking-tickets-by-scandalous-firm-because-of-faulty-machines/ar-AA1A4NQf?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=9b365bbcc6e44bccb0293885f48895c7&ei=48

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-14452389/Drivers-badly-need-Government-code-conduct-parking-firms.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdeln2ly1z0o#:~:text=Some%20car%20park%20operators%20are,be%20reduced%20to%20%C2%A320.

I hope that Donna Nash (see that last link, BBC article) is getting advice to appeal the court case mentioned there. Hopefully Jackson Yamba will handle it if the victims can stomach another hearing after the farce of the judgment that went against them.

The FB Group of over 100 victims at that car park alone (there will be more who just paid or ignored and aren't on Facebook) is here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/356479760664703/

2. The second faulty machine video is here at the top of this FB page (as well as towards the bottom of the group FB page) and it shows a machine screen recording different digits than were pressed:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/356479760664703/user/100041615949403/

So is this just a rogue machine at Syston?  No, this is normal for some PPCs (and it's not just Euro Car Parks but these examples happen to be about them):

Investigation into number of PCNs being given by Euro Car Parks to country park users in Kent

A reporter investigates the allege major keying error after a series of calls and emails from upset readers who told her it’s not them, the machine issues a ticket halfway through inputting your registration number, or the keypad is overly sensitive keying in additional unwanted letters or numbers.

"Surely, it can’t be the case this many people can’t use the machines? Either way, I believe a review into whether the equipment is fit-for-purpose should be undertaken - if only to build back some trust with the county’s country park users."

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/i-d-rather-go-to-prison-than-pay-140-euro-car-parks-fine-320781/

And again, in Birmingham:

Solihull pensioner's dispute with Euro Car Parks over a keying error into it's third year

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/solihull-dad-lives-fear-over-31077599?int_source=amp_continue_reading

Mr Nichols got a fine after he incorrectly input (or did he...?) part of his registration number (did he?) although his registration was still recognisable he was charged £100.

Mr Nichols said his wife "is frightened to death, she doesn't want to go anywhere. Two weeks ago we wanted to go to Stratford-upon-Avon but she said no because of the parking. She's frightened about parking anywhere now, we don't go out as much and she's still worried that bailiffs are going to knock the door."


This thread is about Newton Abbot-based parking management company Premier Parking Solutions, who I seem to recall are ex-wheelclampers and IPC AOS members, as the very worst PPCs almost invariably are.

Court cases are won because the machine is at fault, not the driver:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6422435/county-court-win-against-premier-parking-solutions-bw-legal/p1

Nothing has changed and the local MP needs to get this raised in Parliament. Look, article from Feb 2020:

https://www.kingsbridge-today.co.uk/news/drivers-fury-at-car-park-firms-stance-343657

compare to: article from June 2024:

https://www.southhams-today.co.uk/news/watch-out-if-youre-thinking-of-parking-at-hope-cove-698479

They're making a mint.

I hope this thread gets seen by victims of PPS at Hope Cove and Ministers.

and also by victims of (and the local MP at) another PPS cash cow site:

Sunny Corner, Mevagissey in Cornwall, this is a screenshot (not link) of a dedicated Facebook page for that one:

And Parkopedia reviews of Sunny Corner screenshot, not a link):